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Barack Obama gets Nobel's Peace Prize

nobelpeaceprize.org

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Re: Barack Obama gets Nobel's Peace Prize

#141

Post by jacobolus »

gaius wrote: post #51
brazzy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on. I wish we lived in a world where he could openly acknowledge this: "I want to thank first and foremost my predecessor, George W. Bush, without whose service as a stark contrast, I could not have won this prize (nor, perhaps, the presidency)"

Worth noting that ol' Dubya was the only POTUS willing to appear publicly with the Dalai Lama, at the risk of offending China. Clinton didn't, tho' he did meet him, and Obama has refused to even meet him (see link on my other comment).

And what good did that meeting do? Did China's policy change? Are ethnic Tibetans better off?

Re: Barack Obama gets Nobel's Peace Prize

#142

Post by lrm242 »

unalone wrote: post #115
tsally wrote: post #9

Gandhi died before he was awarded the Peace Prize, even though he was nominated five times. Obama gets it less than a year into his Presidency? I like Obama, but that's just wrong.

I don't know why people hold the Nobel Prizes in such esteem. It's like people complaining that Radiohead doesn't win enough at the Grammies, or that people let Slumdog Millionaire win the Best Picture Oscar. Prizes aren't some objective reflection of how good a person is. The Nobel Prize has long been controversial. Why do people still treat it like a prize where its failures are worth criticizing? In this case, I u…

> People will be less willing to argue with him, bad press against him quiets down, and he's freer to do what he wants without the insane hostility he faces today.

So, basically you think the Nobel Peace Prize gives Obama the right to achieve his entire political agenda without any form of opposition? Right....

> I'd like to think this prize will help lead to the eviction of the Republican Party even more quickly than it was already.

Oh, I understand now. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Barack Obama gets Nobel's Peace Prize

#143

Post by unalone »

lrm242 wrote: post #142
unalone wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why people hold the Nobel Prizes in such esteem. It's like people complaining that Radiohead doesn't win enough at the Grammies, or that people let Slumdog Millionaire win the Best Picture Oscar. Prizes aren't some objective reflection of how good a person is. The Nobel Prize has long been controversial. Why do people still treat it like a prize where its failures are worth criticizing? In this case, I u…

> People will be less willing to argue with him, bad press against him quiets down, and he's freer to do what he wants without the insane hostility he faces today. So, basically you think the Nobel Peace Prize gives Obama the right to achieve his entire political agenda without any form of opposition? Right.... > I'd like to think this prize will help lead to the eviction of the Republican Party even more quickly tha…

> So, basically you think the Nobel Peace Prize gives Obama the right to achieve his entire political agenda without any form of opposition? Right....

No, but it gives him a certain authority. When the right is going batshit insane like it is now, I'd like anything to help counter that we can get.

> Oh, I understand now. Thanks for sharing.

If you don't think the Republican Party needs to dissolve and make way for a newer concept of conservatism, you haven't been paying attention to the last decade.

Re: Barack Obama gets Nobel's Peace Prize

#144

Post by lg »

mahmud wrote: post #139
gaius wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting that ol' Dubya was the only POTUS willing to appear publicly with the Dalai Lama, at the risk of offending China. Clinton didn't, tho' he did meet him, and Obama has refused to even meet him (see link on my other comment).

Dalai Lama, the slave driver .. Google Tibetan history and see what sorts of "religious order" he wants to implement in Tibet. Chinese are an occupying force there, sure, but the Dalai Lama, if he was no the leader of Tibet, would absolutely deserve a coup and summary hanging. Earlier visitors to Tibet commented on the theocratic despotism. In 1895, an Englishman, Dr. A. L. Waddell, wrote that the populace was under…

I'm pretty sure the dalai lama said:

For many reasons, I have decided that I will not be the head of, or play any role in the government when Tibet becomes independent. The future head of the Tibetan Government must be someone popularly elected by the people. There are many advantages to such a step and it will enable us to become a true and complete democracy. I hope that these moves will allow the people of Tibet to have a clear say in determining the future of their country.

Re: Barack Obama gets Nobel's Peace Prize

#145

Post by tedunangst »

jakkals wrote: post #103
olefoo wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is correct, we have not closed the prison camp at Guantanamo, nor have we ceased extraordinary renditions, nor apparently have we ceased to commit torture as a matter of policy. While the Nobel Peace Prize is by it's very nature a political tool intended to promote the political goal it is named for; in this case it feels rather premature. It does seem like an award that was directed more against his predecessor…

"The only other US president to receive the honor was Jimmy Carter and he received it for his work after he was president" Woodrow Wilson won the Nobel Price in 1919 (while he was in office). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Woodrow_Wilson

Roosevelt won in 1906, while in office.

Re: Barack Obama gets Nobel's Peace Prize

#147

Post by lrm242 »

unalone wrote: post #143
lrm242 wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People will be less willing to argue with him, bad press against him quiets down, and he's freer to do what he wants without the insane hostility he faces today. So, basically you think the Nobel Peace Prize gives Obama the right to achieve his entire political agenda without any form of opposition? Right.... > I'd like to think this prize will help lead to the eviction of the Republican Party even more quickly tha…

> So, basically you think the Nobel Peace Prize gives Obama the right to achieve his entire political agenda without any form of opposition? Right.... No, but it gives him a certain authority. When the right is going batshit insane like it is now, I'd like anything to help counter that we can get. > Oh, I understand now. Thanks for sharing. If you don't think the Republican Party needs to dissolve and make way for a…

> No, but it gives him a certain authority. When the right is going batshit insane like it is now, I'd like anything to help counter that we can get.

Unfortunately, it only grants the premonition of authority, to be used as a tool by his supporters to push his agenda. Rightly so, but don't confuse this anything more than a political tool.

> If you don't think the Republican Party needs to dissolve and make way for a newer concept of conservatism, you haven't been paying attention to the last decade.

Are you the person behind those bumper stickers? The ones that say, "If you aren't completely appalled, yada yada"? Please don't assume that your level of disagreement with a particular party must be shared by everyone else.

Re: Barack Obama gets Nobel's Peace Prize

#148

Post by masomenos »

boredguy8 wrote: post #118
jacquesm wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By tainting the Nobel Peace Prize the others get devalued as well, it is one institution. So, I really did mean the Nobel Prize as such and I'm really sorry they did that. From the wikipedia article on the Nobel Prize: "The interval between the accomplishment of the achievement being recognized and the awarding of the Nobel Prize for it varies from discipline to discipline. The prizes in Literature are typically awar…

"By tainting the Nobel Peace Prize the others get devalued as well, it is one institution." That's just a part/whole fallacy. The badness of what some priests did to boys doesn't devalue what Mother Theresa did by virtue of them both being Catholic.

Pet peeve of mine: Teresa was not necessarily the greatest person to walk the earth. From her Wikipedia entry ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Teresa ):

She has been praised by many individuals, governments and organizations; however, she has also faced a diverse range of criticism. These include objections by various individuals and groups, including Christopher Hitchens, Michael Parenti, Aroup Chatterjee, Vishva Hindu Parishad, against the proselytizing focus of her work including a strong stance against abortion, a belief in the spiritual goodness of poverty and alleged baptisms of the dying. Medical journals also criticised the standard of medical care in her hospices and concerns were raised about the opaque nature in which donated money was spent.

Re: Barack Obama gets Nobel's Peace Prize

#149

Post by mcd »

bilbo0s wrote: post #18
jacquesm wrote: post #2

"The Norwegian Nobel Committee has decided that the Nobel Peace Prize for 2009 is to be awarded to President Barack Obama for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples. The Committee has attached special importance to Obama's vision of and work for a world without nuclear weapons." I'm happy for him, and I'm glad to be rid of Bush too, but isn't that a little prem…

MLK gets imprisoned, shot at, fire bombed and beaten. Encourages millions to stand with him at non violent civil disobedience actions. Millions do so DESPITE the fact that they will be imprisoned and beaten. Nelson Mandela . . . yeah . . . ditto. Oh, did I mention 27 years in a notorious prison for 'enemies of the state'. Gorbachev. OK, when was the last time American school children practiced what to do in case of n…

Just a few comments (this whole thread is contrary to YCNews policies).

> Nelson Mandela . . . yeah . . . ditto. Oh, did I mention 27 years in a notorious prison for 'enemies of the state'.

Nelson Mandela was convicted of trying to overthrow the state by armed means and sabotage. It was not due to non-violent protests and even if the cause was right, armed insurrection is never right. And if he succeeded in overthrowing the state it would have been a mess at that time.

Mandela was the head of Umkhonto we Sizwe (the armed wing of the ANC). While he does not bear personal responsibility (since he was in prison) Umkhonto we Sizwe did quite a few despicable things during the struggle.

Also, Robben Island (where Mandela spent the majority of his time) isn’t that notorious. Many prisoners of the struggle era were kept there and many of them obtained degrees while in prison (from UNISA). I would much rather be incarcerated in Robben Island than today’s Pollsmoor prison.

Whatever the argument, he still deserved a prize (as did FW de Klerk) for the negotiated settlement that brought about the first multi-racial elections.

Re: Barack Obama gets Nobel's Peace Prize

#150

Post by silkodyssey »

I agree with the general sentiments that the award is probably premature but I think the general nature of the award lends itself to situations such as these.

An award has to be given out every year and the world does not produce ghandis at that rate so the people who have made profound achievements will have to share the award with those who've done less.

This does diminish the achievements of the greats in a sense but that's just how the system works and the fact that we can't really point to anyone else who obviously deserved the award more than Obama suggests that he may have been the best choice after all.

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