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Resumes suck for hiring engineers

blog.alinelerner.com

141–150 of 172 posts

Re: Resumes suck for hiring engineers

#141
post #58

Sadly one of the biggest problems I have found regarding Resumes/CV's in the IT industry and companies is the rise of HR departments who will just word filter the candidates and even remove people they deem not suitable. Even the classic case of filtering out people they deem `overqualified`, which sadly means the IT manager most often does not get to even see or known about the better candidates and ends up with a s…

It this really a problem? Because most of us wouldn't want to work for a company with such a broken hiring process, it's a big red flag for a lot of other things being wrong in they way they treat their tech people. And those who do want to get in should be smart enough to play the game and cater their resumes to those HR practices. If you can't or won't, you probably wouldn't happy or successful working for such a c…

I agree, though for many companies recruiting those fields of work have long established institutions and recognised exams, be those lawyers or accountants. now IT has its own institutions and exams but the difference is, those change so frequently or that anything with credibility has changed or indeed expired due to technology changes at a frequency higher than the educational process too learn those skills fully.

Accountant exams and lawyers as the best examples have not changed. So for HR to see filter is not only easy but obvious process in such stable measures. In IT those change so much that it is mostly recruitment agency input that has those factored into requirements and as for agencies. Well some good at filtering and know the trades and others mostly work upon (1) get CV's (2) get companies (3) push CV's and effort done by wine and dine approach with HR.

So not only is it the HR department but the agency factor and in the web based direction the added level of filtering does get down to keywords still and little if not mostly none at all human sanity by somebody who knows the role and can see the signs of somebody who knows the skills.

Then keywords do not bestow what level of competence and that varies greatly as we all know.

This all said sometimes the gains outway the broken HR if you get an offer and not every time do you have the luxury of saying no.

Though as a personal anecdote I once had a job interview with a company and got there on time, left waiting and eventually HR bod came down and said fill this in (form which was all details upon my CV), so I ask can I just attach my CV you already have and told no. So I had to fill out in pen on a form that you just know somebody will have to type into a system, details already upon my CV. Did that, still waiting for HR bod to return. They return then have interview with HR. Was very belittling with much attitude of thats a lot for money for somebody your age and in short really off putting attitude. I then saw the boss of the IT department, was interview with him and IT contractor, not only aced the interview and blew them away but taught them things as well like undocumented debug modes in software they used (dataease so talking 90's here). Given the contractor was a `specialist` in this product he was mind blown. Also the small bonus skills I totally aced, in short a perfect interview at every level.

Not only was I offered the job before I got home from the interview but they had offered 20% more than the agency had put me forward for and that HR person had been so much attitude towards me (I was early 20's). It just totally put me off, and turned it down, just due to that HR experience. Though have many other HR anecdotes, some good and some bad, as we all do and shall not mention the posture nazi's for want of a better term.

Re: Resumes suck for hiring engineers

#142
I can tell you that I got interviews at 6 "startups" (ranging from garage to multi-million dollars) in San Francisco without giving any of them resumes. And I live in Milwaukee, so they even had to fly me out.

Seems like SF is on top of it, Milwaukee on the other hand, only cares about how many years of experience you have. Nothing else.

Re: Resumes suck for hiring engineers

#144
post #42

The startup where I serve as in-house recruiter, FutureAdvisor, recently ran an experiment in hiring without resumes. It was called StaffupWeekend. The Chronicle's careers blogger wrote about it here: http://blog.sfgate.com/gettowork/2014/10/31/staffup-offers-a... We recognized that resumes were poor indicators of performance. In fact, we believe that the only thing that correlates with performance -- is performance.…

> The solution we came up with was to invite people to work on projects for a weekend at no cost other than their time. As in working for you for free, and on a WE to boot? For a student or someone who is unemployed, that might work. For someone with a job and a family life, I don't think so. Especially if that person can command a $120k+ salary.

No. As in working for the common good for free.

We invited people to come up with ways to improve the job market, which is clearly broken. Some chose to do that, while others had their own apps already in mind.

One group made contactr.io, an extension for Google Chrome that shows you the email addresses of the founders of the company website you're visiting.

Another group is working on a project called livelyhood, which will be a sort of LinkedIn 2.0 where candidates can share their work easily.

The participants worked for themselves, helped each other, and walked away with a larger network of people who recognized their qualities.

This weekend was specifically designed for people whose resumes would not automatically "command" a $120K salary. They were the ones languishing in the slush pile.

We held the event on a weekend so that people who already had jobs, albeit jobs they were unhappy with, could join us.

If you like your weekends more than good work, then it definitely would not have been the right fit.

Re: Resumes suck for hiring engineers

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen many negative consequences from poor software engineers being brought into companies first hand. I saw a junior engineer try to add a patchwork of libraries just because he was not confident in his ability to do something correctly, leading to a lot of maintenance overhead that grew very quickly. Many of the previous frontend engineers got fired from my current company because they did not produce at all -…

First off, thanks for providing some concrete examples. That said, those all fundamentally sound like process problems to me. They would not have been allowed to happen at either of the companies I have worked for or any of the companies I have worked with, at least not to a degree that they would harm products. Sure, we have shit code down in the bowels of our libraries, and some of it was put there by people who di…

I agree that good process is of vital importance. At one of the aforementioned companies, there was little process. At another, they appeared to have near mastered it (some issues, but overall exhibited excellent leadership & management). At one, the process is seriously broken.

I am starting to feel that if there is some bad code that does some longer term damage, the managers are at fault.

Re: Resumes suck for hiring engineers

#146

Resumes are just a tool to decide whether or not to start a conversation. When hiring, you are not really concerned about letting a good candidate go. There will always be others. It is far more dangerous to let a poor candidate in. And poor candidates tend to be poor due to cultural and subject matter issues more than basic technical chops. I'm not making any hiring decisions at this point - just weeding a huge list…

It is far more dangerous to let a poor candidate in

Only if you're hesitant to fire poor performers, or your organization or legal environment make it difficult to fire them.

Re: Resumes suck for hiring engineers

#147
post #56

What I feel right now is that the hiring process is more and more based on personnal branding. If you want to have a job interview in top startup you have to have a good github, smart blog posts, a good stackoverflow, a good kaggle, some certificats from coursera, some conf etc. It's a good thing for hiring process, you could judge a candidat more easely if you could read some of his code or thoughts. You could have…

A company that relies on GitHub and blog posts will miss tons of highly-qualified candidates who don't (or cannot due to their employment agreement) work on open source and who don't spend their weekends blogging and posting to StackOverflow. Sure, I can see interesting programming side projects being a nice bonus, but it's not a replacement for a resume + technical interview.

Re: Resumes suck for hiring engineers

#148
post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The solution we came up with was to invite people to work on projects for a weekend at no cost other than their time. As in working for you for free, and on a WE to boot? For a student or someone who is unemployed, that might work. For someone with a job and a family life, I don't think so. Especially if that person can command a $120k+ salary.

No. As in working for the common good for free. We invited people to come up with ways to improve the job market, which is clearly broken. Some chose to do that, while others had their own apps already in mind. One group made contactr.io, an extension for Google Chrome that shows you the email addresses of the founders of the company website you're visiting. Another group is working on a project called livelyhood, wh…

> If you like your weekends more than good work, then it definitely would not have been the right fit.

Seriously????

Re: Resumes suck for hiring engineers

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When hiring, you are not really concerned about letting a good candidate go. With that attitude, I hope you aren't complaining about how hard it is to find talent. > It is far more dangerous to let a poor candidate in. This gets parroted a lot around here, but with no supporting evidence other than highly improbable hypotheticals or black swan events. On the other hand, I know plenty of companies that have had to d…

I've seen many negative consequences from poor software engineers being brought into companies first hand. I saw a junior engineer try to add a patchwork of libraries just because he was not confident in his ability to do something correctly, leading to a lot of maintenance overhead that grew very quickly. Many of the previous frontend engineers got fired from my current company because they did not produce at all -…

Why did the damage persist for years? Seems like that problem could be fixed fairly quickly.

It is too bad when someone writes less than optimal code, but on the other hand, did the software work? Did it make the company money? If so then it was a success, regardless of how bad the code looks. Often times in business you have to hack together something that works now, and worry about re-writing it later. It's easy with the benefit of hindsight to look back and say how things should've been done differently.

Re: Resumes suck for hiring engineers

#150
post #77

The experiment looks flawed. It seems that ALL (or almost all) resumes are, at least, OK. Resumes can work for weeding out bad fits, or people doing things clearly out of the scope of interest. They are not, and cannot, be a tool for choosing the best. (Unless success is so spectacular, that you know the person by name anyway.) It's HR's delusion that previous -perceived- presented achievements written on one's resum…

But can we have technical interviews instead of brain-teasers? Maybe it is just me, but I don't do puzzles. I solve big problems, and I have a track record of being very successful at it. I juggle people, and tools, and objectives, and timelines, and get things done. I like projects, and I am not afraid of hard work. If I like the objective of a project, I will wade through human vomit to get it done. Brain teasers a…

Most companies don't do brain teasers any more. That was a fad from the 00's.
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