Ask HN: Whom do you admire most? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Whom do you admire most?

#141

Post by bokonist » Thu, Oct 08, 2009, 6:54 AM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #135

philwelch wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine how many millions of lives would be freer and richer if Deng had acted in the same way as Gorbechev, Yeltsin, or even Egon Krenz. Had Louis XVI acted in the same way as Deng, continental Europe may still be under the heel of absolute monarchism today, with all the stupid pointless wars that entails. The French Revolution was a step forward for humanity, no matter how messy it was.

Yes the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants, but then liberty might be a biased western concept.

No, Jefferson was wrong, plain and simple. The American Revolution led to a net decrease in liberty. By the 1790's taxes were higher than they had ever been under the British. The war itself force tens thousands of loyalists out of their homeland. Tocqueville wrote: "I do not know a country where there is in general less intellectual independence and less freedom of discussion than in America. .. . In America the majority builds an impregnable wall around the process of thinking."

Re: Ask HN: Whom do you admire most?

#142

Post by bootload » Thu, Oct 08, 2009, 7:02 AM UTC

people like "shooter" who stay positive & contribute even in the face of adversity ~ http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=868325 & http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=867623

Re: Ask HN: Whom do you admire most?

#143

Post by ismarc » Thu, Oct 08, 2009, 7:04 AM UTC

Immanuel Kant, if nothing more than realizing he was wrong and spending over 10 years trying to discover what may be right.

Re: Ask HN: Whom do you admire most?

#144

Post by gritzko » Thu, Oct 08, 2009, 7:17 AM UTC

Carl Gustaf Emil von Mannerheim; the guy who rocked

Re: Ask HN: Whom do you admire most?

#145

Post by bokonist » Thu, Oct 08, 2009, 7:25 AM UTC

ajju wrote: post #106

bokonist wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gandhi is not the man you think he is: http://history.eserver.org/ghandi-nobody-knows.txt

I am an ardent critic of Gandhi, and many of those criticisms of Gandhi are worth considering and outside of private discussions, rarely brought up in India. However, for an article that criticizes Gandhi for being racist, the author has some nerve saying: "Throughout his entire life Gandhi displayed the most spectacular inability to understand or even really take in people unlike himself--a trait which V.S. Naipaul…

The article says, "He [Gandhi] sang the praises of Subhas Chandra Bose"

And indeed, in 1942 Gandhi called Bose "a prince among the patriots". Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_views_of_Subhash_Chan... Wikipedia says that this was a "a reference, in particular, to Bose's achievement in integrating women and men from all the regions and religions of India in the Indian National Army." The source for the wikipedia quote is The Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi.

Thus it seems that the claim from the article is indeed correct, albeit it one-sided.

Re: Ask HN: Whom do you admire most?

#146

Post by bokonist » Thu, Oct 08, 2009, 7:27 AM UTC

ajju wrote: post #129

bokonist wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the outright fabrications?

The implication that Gandhi supported Bose and his Indian National Army, as I mentioned in my comment below.

The article did not make any "outright fabrications" with regards to Bose, see my comment below.

Re: Ask HN: Whom do you admire most?

#147

Post by brg » Thu, Oct 08, 2009, 7:29 AM UTC

In the 20th Century, John VonNeumann. He was a hacker through and through. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_von_Neumann

Re: Ask HN: Whom do you admire most?

#148

Post by chrischen » Thu, Oct 08, 2009, 7:29 AM UTC

bokonist wrote: post #141

chrischen wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants, but then liberty might be a biased western concept.

No, Jefferson was wrong, plain and simple. The American Revolution led to a net decrease in liberty. By the 1790's taxes were higher than they had ever been under the British. The war itself force tens thousands of loyalists out of their homeland. Tocqueville wrote: "I do not know a country where there is in general less intellectual independence and less freedom of discussion than in America. .. . In America the maj…

How can you quantify the amount of liberty in America???

Let's say taxes were higher, that doesn't mean a decrease in liberty. They fought because of taxation without representation, not because of high taxes.

So you're saying that majority rule in USA tends to prevent the smarter people from getting any power? I think what generally happens is that people who are smarter, and do things better, will do it. At least they have the ability to. Reality will prevail and reveal how much better they are, and then the majority will pursue the new method/idea.

Re: Ask HN: Whom do you admire most?

#149

Post by covercash » Thu, Oct 08, 2009, 7:35 AM UTC

Dean Kamen. So much more than the Segway.

Re: Ask HN: Whom do you admire most?

#150

Post by bokonist » Thu, Oct 08, 2009, 7:37 AM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #148

bokonist wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, Jefferson was wrong, plain and simple. The American Revolution led to a net decrease in liberty. By the 1790's taxes were higher than they had ever been under the British. The war itself force tens thousands of loyalists out of their homeland. Tocqueville wrote: "I do not know a country where there is in general less intellectual independence and less freedom of discussion than in America. .. . In America the maj…

How can you quantify the amount of liberty in America??? Let's say taxes were higher, that doesn't mean a decrease in liberty. They fought because of taxation without representation, not because of high taxes. So you're saying that majority rule in USA tends to prevent the smarter people from getting any power? I think what generally happens is that people who are smarter, and do things better, will do it. At least t…

I consider taxes to be a decrease in liberty, because I am no longer able to dispose of my income in a way that I please. Instead I am forced to hand some of it over, at pain of imprisonment. I have no actual power to prevent this.