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Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

benmilne.com

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Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#141

Post by AndrewKemendo »

untog wrote: post #136
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #135

I am constantly the contrarian in these cases, but not for sake of being contrary, it's just that I genuinely do not relate. I would kill to be in Ben's place. He is making an impact. We aren't reading his words because he is a great dad or husband or whatever, he is impacting us and making us spill thousands of words because he is making something impactful. I could never turn that off, nothing is as great in my opi…

No one's legacy is based on how good of a dad/partner they were. What the actual hell? You really think that? Let's take another view: Dwolla might tank. It could be dead and gone within a year - that's how startups work. What is "impactful" today can be forgotten within six months. Your legacy literally is how good a dad you were because the only legacy you can really rely on (within reason, of course) is your child…

the only legacy you can really rely on (within reason, of course) is your children and your family

Except that is completely untrue. Every family I have ever encountered is split and bifurcated and generally not that reliable. True they exist, but by and large families are not that reliable.

I'm a father of three and have studied parenting outcomes for a while now. My children's outcomes in life are marginally related to how available I am as a parent beyond a certain minimal threshold - more important are socioeconomic factors. Even if you take that into account, even the most perfectly raised children (Whatever that means) have a high chance of winding up in an outcome that is less than optimal based on parental expectations - assuming that you have some aspirational expectations to begin with for them.

All that is to say that raising kids is a crap shoot and outcomes, either for you or for them, do not necessarily correlate with effort spent. Again, caveat this with "beyond a certain point" which is the bar of not living in poverty - arguably one major benefit of being successful in business.

Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#142

Post by AndrewKemendo »

boken wrote: post #139
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #135

I am constantly the contrarian in these cases, but not for sake of being contrary, it's just that I genuinely do not relate. I would kill to be in Ben's place. He is making an impact. We aren't reading his words because he is a great dad or husband or whatever, he is impacting us and making us spill thousands of words because he is making something impactful. I could never turn that off, nothing is as great in my opi…

> No one's legacy is based on how good of a dad/partner they were. You've never heard tribute paid to a parent by someone you admired? Or do you think it's always ceremony? I can assure that you that there are those whom you look up to, who in turn look up far higher to a mother or father. And there are people who write about life as a parent--and not just mawkish mess with a glossy cover, I mean that rare stuff of s…

You've never heard tribute paid to a parent by someone you admired? Or do you think it's always ceremony?

Sure but that is not a legacy in my mind. Said this way, how good of a dad Steve Jobs was rarely if ever is discussed when talking about his legacy. If I recall he even had an "illegitimate" son.

One final note: maybe no one is remembered by name for their work as a parent or partner--not that it matters to most--but there are some who are known and remembered for how bad of one they were. And their legacies are tainted, no matter what else they did.

No doubt about that, but those are cases of actual abuse, and real hardcore neglect. Is Nelson Mandela admonished for being a bad and absent father? No.

Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#143

Post by whafro »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #137
danielovich wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spot on! And also more important

Not disagreeing necessarily, but I am curious what makes you rate it "more important."

The choice to have kids in the first place is a purely individual choice. For some, it may be incredibly important. For others, I think it's perfectly acceptable to opt out of the whole thing.

Once you've had the kids, however, I'd suggest that most startups (perhaps not absolutely all) are objectively less important than making sure your kids grow up to be decent, empathetic, constructive members of society – for whatever definition of society you choose. It may be tough for your kid to grow up to change everyone's world, but it's really easy to let one grow up to destroy someone's world, and preventing that is the job you took on when you decided to take the step of having a child that may one day interact with mine.

Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#144

Post by AndrewKemendo »

whafro wrote: post #143
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not disagreeing necessarily, but I am curious what makes you rate it "more important."

The choice to have kids in the first place is a purely individual choice. For some, it may be incredibly important. For others, I think it's perfectly acceptable to opt out of the whole thing. Once you've had the kids, however, I'd suggest that most startups (perhaps not absolutely all) are objectively less important than making sure your kids grow up to be decent, empathetic, constructive members of society – for wh…

Thanks for your perspective.

Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#145

Post by boken »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #142
boken wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one's legacy is based on how good of a dad/partner they were. You've never heard tribute paid to a parent by someone you admired? Or do you think it's always ceremony? I can assure that you that there are those whom you look up to, who in turn look up far higher to a mother or father. And there are people who write about life as a parent--and not just mawkish mess with a glossy cover, I mean that rare stuff of s…

You've never heard tribute paid to a parent by someone you admired? Or do you think it's always ceremony? Sure but that is not a legacy in my mind. Said this way, how good of a dad Steve Jobs was rarely if ever is discussed when talking about his legacy. If I recall he even had an "illegitimate" son. One final note: maybe no one is remembered by name for their work as a parent or partner--not that it matters to most-…

If you think that Steve Jobs is admired across the board and not commonly disparaged for actions in his personal life, you've spent too much time in the tech world.

As for your remarks upthread about broken families: I'm sorry you, or anyone, should have to live at the extreme end of that curve.

Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#147

Post by sliverstorm »

Htsthbjig wrote: post #71

When I was young I met a Spanish tennis player called Rafael Nadal when he was a kid. He was managed and coached by his uncle who had experience in being a professional football player. What shocked me is that he did not sacrifice Rafael's life like most of other kids that could be good(examples like Michael Jackson or in tennis the Wiilians' sisters or Arantxa Sanchez Vicario in Spain). At the time everybody believe…

At the time everybody believed that if Rafael was not sent to Barcelona to a tennis Boarding school without seeing their family and giving it all to tennis, he couldn't make it.

That's hustle. For those of us who are not gifted, we "make it" through hard work and sweat. Whether it's worth it or not is another question, but for most of us giving it your all is necessary to climb high.

Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#148

Post by gsibble »

8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #32

The startup thing has been both amazing and incredibly devastating. Haven't seen my folks in years. Spouse dumped me because I practically didn't exist outside of work. Absolutely no hobbies or traveling in years. No guarantee the company will be anything but a massive drop in my financial history. You're constantly running out of money, so you're cutting every unnecessary expense, and you're living on scraps for yea…

You hit the nail on the head. Once you've done it, there's nothing quite like it. It's like the volume knob on the rest of the world gets turned down.

I'm 3 months out of my last CEO role and depressed, despite being depressed in my CEO role. Now I'm depressed because I'm bored. I don't know what happiness is anymore. It turns out that happiness is chasing the dream, not the dream itself. I've lost sight of it. I don't remember what it is or if it even existed.

It's like what Alan Watts said: it's not the end of the journey, it is the journey. Remember that and try to enjoy it while it lasts.

Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#149

Post by santoshalper »

tedks wrote: post #105
yason wrote: post #51

Life is now. If you‘re doing something for money so that you can live your life the way you want later, that doesn‘t work because it takes time to learn to live your life the way you want. Typically it takes a lifetime to do that, so you must start early: you must start now if you wish to make it. Otherwise you‘ll end up with a lot of cash and no idea of what kind of life makes you fulfilled. If you‘re doing somethin…

This is the sort of sentimentality that has no place in modern capitalism. Why would you need to cook dinner or water a garden (who even has a garden) or even have children in the first place? People have been doing that for thousands of years. If you want to scratch dirt you can move to Kansas and be a dirt farmer. Plenty of time with your kids with that career track. If you're building a company, you have almost no…

This is just such a sad perspective. The trajectory of your life, which will be tragic, is surely obvious to everyone around you except yourself. This is entirely a delusion you have chosen to believe.

Re: Sometimes, it’s just time to go home

#150

Post by santoshalper »

gsibble wrote: post #148
8f2ab37a-ed6c wrote: post #32

The startup thing has been both amazing and incredibly devastating. Haven't seen my folks in years. Spouse dumped me because I practically didn't exist outside of work. Absolutely no hobbies or traveling in years. No guarantee the company will be anything but a massive drop in my financial history. You're constantly running out of money, so you're cutting every unnecessary expense, and you're living on scraps for yea…

You hit the nail on the head. Once you've done it, there's nothing quite like it. It's like the volume knob on the rest of the world gets turned down. I'm 3 months out of my last CEO role and depressed, despite being depressed in my CEO role. Now I'm depressed because I'm bored. I don't know what happiness is anymore. It turns out that happiness is chasing the dream, not the dream itself. I've lost sight of it. I don…

You neglected your life and took terrible care of yourself and now you are likely suffering from clinical depression. The volume knob got turned down because you stopped listening.
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