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Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

theguardian.com

141–150 of 190 posts

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with that? Lots of people love working seasonally. Teachers, fishermen, hospitality workers, and forest rangers can work seasonally. Why should programmers be denied the privilege by law?

I'm not aware of how it works in those fields, but as I see it, trying to burden companies with unclear laws and force artificial behavior is what is causing the problem in this case. For example- A large company needs a contractor and is willing to pay $75/hr for 12 months. Option 1- Hires you as a contractor directly for $75/hr on 1099. You get paid well, but if they are not very savvy about independent contractor…

Now the law can be improved to regulate these well understood staffing companies.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't the "something else" just money? The employer gets an employee who is afraid to ask for a raise, since that might mean losing immigration status and returning to a (not as comfortable) life in their home country. With the green card process taking a few good years, the employer has an indentured servant. Indian born CEO or American born, money is money to them. Immigration reform is essential. If someone on a t…

>Isn't the "something else" just money? No. Frequently it is more expensive to outsource and this is well known beforehand by management. There are plenty of companies out there who choose the outsourcing/H1B route in spite of the higher cost, not out of sheer stupidity, but because they feel better able to control their workers and are willing to sacrifice margin for that. Anybody who has seen incredulously watched…

By law (not that it is obeyed) H1B is only for jobs that there are zero local workers available to do at the offered wage.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no legal loophole. The lawsuits in India (in majority of the cases) carry on for eternity and that's the endemic characteristic which companies exploit. That said, you yourself can try to use a legal threat as a means to turn the tides in your favor. In my personal experience, it has worked. I have made a detailed comment on the relevant laws [0]. I wouldn't prefer the legal gun option. You can show salary s…

Thanks for reply. Can you shed some light on notice period policy by companies? Many companies have reasonable period like 2 weeks to a month, however some ask for like 2-3 months.

Notice period policies is a mutual decision between the employee and the employer, the law does not put in any limitations. Of course, the notice period should be reasonable and should not violate basic civil rights. Therefore, the exact duration is open to interpretation.

Practically, 3 months would not seem unreasonable.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#144
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"For fresh grad though, if they quit earlier than 18 months, they have to pay almost a year of their salary, which seems reasonable when there are trainings when they joined the company." No, that is not ever reasonable anywhere in any situation. May be typical, but not reasonable.

The US government does the same thing to the American students they give "CyberCorps" scholarships to. They have an obligation to remain in government jobs for the same number of years that they received the scholarship for and if they want to leave early they have to repay the scholarship. https://www.sfs.opm.gov/

Same is true for ROTC scholarships and service academy (e.g. West Point) enrollment.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#145
post #135
post #118

At a couple of companies I was at, an Indian jobs shop had somehow gotten their mitts into our HR types and we were indundated with candidates who showed up with books like "Learn Java in 12 hours" or "Windows Device Drivers for N00bs" under their arms. Very junior types, without exception. Our interview questions were fed back, and I had to change them a fair amount. Not a problem. "The guy at XYZZY will ask about h…

I am not sure if your response is relevant to the article, but I felt that there is some level of superiority complex that you and many fellow humans posses (in this case, about your superior knowledge and intellect). Perhaps the biggest difference between you and someone applying for the job through the h1b visa program was that they were born in a different set of circumstances than you were. They were likely born…

I'm perfectly happy interviewing people for junior positions. We did this quite a bit at larger companies where junior engineers were desirable, and there was structure that let them succeed.

But when I'm dealing with a professional organization that is basically trying to scam my company into doing mis-hires, that's when my empathy goes dry. I have a duty to my co-workers and my investors to not screw up hires. I see gaming the system as a legitimate opportunity to criticize someone else's behavior.

I agree, these junior level people are in a tough position. They're being mis-represented and taken advantage of. It sucks. I want people to succeed. But I don't do handouts, and the practices I've seen make me mad.

Everyone in this industry sees many, many resumes from people who cannot do the job. Everyone interviews people who don't pass. Probably everyone has seen people fired because they couldn't perform or were doing damage. This happens. It's not going away. And it's not pleasant.

So while it might not come across in what I wrote above, every time I affect someone's life like this -- every time I send a "Sorry, we're not going to proceed" email, or tell someone in an interview that we're cutting things short today -- I feel bad about it. Sometimes a little bad, sometimes a lot. Sometimes I agonize over a resume (and we spent quite a bit of time on a candidate the other day, trying to come up with reasons to proceed). But the alternatives (job charity? keeping someone on who does negative work?) are worse. Much worse.

And given all the people who should be given a chance, I won't countenance fraud. That makes me write responses that are direct and forceful and unapologetic. These job shops are poisoning the well for the individuals who are truly deserving, and that should make everyone mad.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is common in games, what has happened to people I know is they get a job and then build the mechanics of a game, they then get fired while the art is discussed and worked on, then rehired to finish the work as nobody else knows how it fits together anyway.

What's wrong about it? You should just charge more in expectations that the job won't last long and you can work at different company on different game mechanics after getting fired. Employing people you do not need is not efficient for both the company and economy.

Nothings wrong about it at all if the employer is up front about it.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#147
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "For fresh grad though, if they quit earlier than 18 months, they have to pay almost a year of their salary, which seems reasonable when there are trainings when they joined the company." Even by Malaysian standards this is just ridiculous. The tech scene in Malaysia is growing - people really shouldn't have to put up with this nonsense.

Eh, happens even to the best companies in US. Microsoft employment agreement stipulates that if you quit earlier than one year, you have to pay back all relocation expenses (visas, temporary housing, etc). Easily tens of thousands of dollars.

Relocation expenses are different, and if you're really concerned about it; you are not required to use the relocation benefits.

As some supporting evidence that the relocation package is different than wages, wages are taxable and a qualified relocation expense is not.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#148
post #135
post #118

At a couple of companies I was at, an Indian jobs shop had somehow gotten their mitts into our HR types and we were indundated with candidates who showed up with books like "Learn Java in 12 hours" or "Windows Device Drivers for N00bs" under their arms. Very junior types, without exception. Our interview questions were fed back, and I had to change them a fair amount. Not a problem. "The guy at XYZZY will ask about h…

I am not sure if your response is relevant to the article, but I felt that there is some level of superiority complex that you and many fellow humans posses (in this case, about your superior knowledge and intellect). Perhaps the biggest difference between you and someone applying for the job through the h1b visa program was that they were born in a different set of circumstances than you were. They were likely born…

Yes there is certain luck bestowed upon you when you are born in US. But you still need to do lots of work to get a good job.

Big multinational don't care about your visa status, several of my friend has been in Zurich (Google), Dubin (Google), London (FB) if they didn't make cut in H1B lottery system after they cleared the interview process.

Don't confuse empathy with competence. Are you looking for charity when you interview with the companies ?

Work hard, raise your competence level and you will have no problem finding a good job in any part of the world.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#149

Most people coming on H1B are no less talented /skilled or hardworking that an average american techie. However, the H1B worker is not aware of his rights. The average H1b worker has no one to turn to for help as the people who are most vehemently against H1B have racist and xenophobic agendas. I speak from experience : while on a H1B VISA (and in middle of a unpleasant work situation), I sought help by seeking out t…

I don't fully agree with "Most people coming on H1B are no less talented /skilled or hardworking that an average american techie"

Remember workers in H1B are suppose to be specialized and cream layer of workers.

Apart from few thousand people (working in Google/FB/Microsoft), others are completely replaceable by american workers, it just that H1B people will put with lot of stuff at lot less pay than there american counterparts, hence contributing to bottom line of these body shopping companies. (TCS/HCL/Wipro) are no different.

A competent person has many options regardless of visa status and nationality.

Re: Job brokers steal wages and entrap Indian tech workers in US

#150
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US government does the same thing to the American students they give "CyberCorps" scholarships to. They have an obligation to remain in government jobs for the same number of years that they received the scholarship for and if they want to leave early they have to repay the scholarship. https://www.sfs.opm.gov/

In that case, they repay the scholarship, not the salary.

For an entry level government job the scholarship probably is equivalent to a year of salary. Point being this sort of service requirement for scholarship is pretty common and isn't some practice relegated to shady companies on the other side of the world.
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