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What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

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Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#141

Post by nl »

TwoBit wrote: post #70
espinchi wrote: post #4

Here's the hypothetical scenario that the report describes in the end. I've found reading the analysis after this story makes it an even better read: The road is so flat and straight, you can see them coming from a mile away. Six runners flow in arrowhead formation around the Canadian city of Saskatoon. The early November air is still and dry, the sky overcast, and the temperature hovers a bit above freezing, just as…

Why is it that drafting is allowed in world records? Why not just break the record by having a big draft train like in cycling? Cycling records don't count if drafting is involved, in fact.

Marathon races are traditionally about winning, not about records, and times aren't really comparable across courses.

The Marathon record doesn't even require the course to be flat (there are limits on the elevation difference for it to be recognised as a record).

Drafting isn't massively effective in running. A Marathon in 2 hours is 21 km/h, and in cycling you wouldn't really bother drafting at that speed.

Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#144

Post by ck2 »

I know we like nice round numbers like "2 hours" but anything remotely close to 2 hours is an insane, all-out pace as any runner knows.

I doubt most cities have people who could run a half marathon at that pace. The best half-marathons are still around 59 minutes, now you want to double that with no performance penalty.

It is going to take an incredibly genetically gifted person with a lifetime of training to do it. Basically the Usain Bolt of marathons.

What I like is that in the half-marathon, women are only 5 minutes behind men. I am more interested when the first woman will run a one hour half-marathon.

Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#145

Post by nl »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #118
nl wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Read "Running with the Kenyans"[1]. Euro/Asian/American runners might have nice tracks to train on, but they don't have things like training groups that include multiple Boston, NY and Berlin winners. That book is pretty eye opening read. The running culture is like nothing else - guys who come 3rd in the world 10,000m championship are hardly worth mentioning, high school races have better fields than US or European…

I read into your post the idea that it's training culture and not genetics that gets so many east africans into distance running success. Correct me if I'm wrong. Seems unlikely to me. 100m and 200m is thoroughly dominated by New World West Africans. Mid distance 400m to 1600m is pretty well split up between Africans, Whites, and East Asians. Whites actually seem to do well at 800m. I don't really know, but it seems…

I'd never rule out the (huge) role genetics play. But the culture and environment have a role too.

You don't see many Kenyans dominating in cross country skiing or in road cycling which are both endurance sports where similar physical attributes are useful. Sports culture has a huge role.

OTOH, there have been projects to see how Kenyans do in those sports. The small Nike-supported cross country skiing project wasn't very successful[1], but the cycling project is showing some promise[2]. Genetics has a huge role.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Boit

[2] http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2013/apr/29...

Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#146

Post by bayesianhorse »

For some people? You need to be reborn with the right physiology and anatomy.

Seriously. Some people are not made to run 2 hour marathons, or acquired some insuries or problems which makes reaching this goal either futile or even counterproductive, depending on why you are setting this goal.

Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#147

Post by andor »

KobaQ wrote: post #126

Unfortunately this article misses the third of the three components to improve endurance performance, which is lactate production rate (indicator for fat burning: the lower the more energy is produced by burning fat). Two athletes with the same VO2max and efficiency can have vastly different performances in a marathon. The body's VO2max potential can be used by solely burning carbs, which supply is limited (about 200…

lactate production rate (indicator for fat burning

The body's VO2max potential can be used by solely burning carbs

Actually you mixed them both up. In aerobic (with oxygen) exercise, you mostly burn fat. In anaerobic exercise, you burn glucose and glycogen and produce lactic acid through lactic acid fermentation. The important metric for anaerobic performance is not acid production rate, but acid tolerance of the muscles, because high acid levels lead to fatigue.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anaerobic_exercise

Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#148

Post by x0x0 »

a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #111
Balgair wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, I wonder what the long term effects of these drugs are. Medicinal and therapeutic use may be very promising for average people just trying to stay in shape. If the long term effects aren't too terrible, say like that of coffee, then greater acceptance may be possible. Also, as toward the 2 hour marathon, drugs that are psychoactive may be of as great a benefit as the physical ones. Not just caffeine and other pl…

As I understand it the main problem with the androgen anabolic drugs is aromatization. The chemicals tend to wind up as estrogen. Professionals using the drugs pursue careful protocols to limit aromatization; amateurs not so much hence the shrunken dick and bitch tit rumors about 'roids. Contrary to the popular understanding of estrogen as "the female hormone," estrogen compounds are more usefully thought of as dange…

Professionals use drugs that attempt to counter aromatization, eg arimidex, in their stacks. There will still be side effects. Serious bodybuilders regularly have their nipple glands removed. Gyno surgery is incredibly common.

Bostin Loyd is actually honest and discusses gear -- see eg [0:2].

[0] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmPI_kX3oDE

[1] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF4zL_BdePc

[2] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2kJ6-mmjik

Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#149

Post by x0x0 »

eru wrote: post #114
a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tests don't really work. All the athletes are on cycles of daily microdosing protocols that to date are undetectable. It works for EPO as well as androgens. If you have any question whether an athlete, model, or actor is using drugs it is safe to assume the answer is yes.

Why actors?

Drugs will allow you, at smaller sizes, to get ripped with very little effort. Drugs will allow you, with extreme effort, to look like the rock. Many actors that get lean for roles could possibly be natty, though I'd say few have the work ethic. Nobody natty is as big as the rock. It's not possible.

Not to mention the idea of actors putting on 10-20 pounds of lean muscle in, say, 3-6 months between movies is laughable (but remotely possible) in their 20s. When you see guys doing it in their 40s you have to be actively lying to yourself to believe that possible.

Oh, and low doses of much of this stuff, under careful supervision of a doctor, makes you healthier. Your skin will be better, you'll look younger, you'll have (slightly) more muscle, etc. Aging clinics are greenwashing drugs: you pay $2k/mo and get scrips making everything nice and legal.

Re: What will it take to run a 2-hour marathon?

#150

Post by rjsw »

nl wrote: post #145
a8da6b0c91d wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read into your post the idea that it's training culture and not genetics that gets so many east africans into distance running success. Correct me if I'm wrong. Seems unlikely to me. 100m and 200m is thoroughly dominated by New World West Africans. Mid distance 400m to 1600m is pretty well split up between Africans, Whites, and East Asians. Whites actually seem to do well at 800m. I don't really know, but it seems…

I'd never rule out the (huge) role genetics play. But the culture and environment have a role too. You don't see many Kenyans dominating in cross country skiing or in road cycling which are both endurance sports where similar physical attributes are useful. Sports culture has a huge role. OTOH, there have been projects to see how Kenyans do in those sports. The small Nike-supported cross country skiing project wasn't…

A "Kenyan" has won the Tour de France.
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