The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home • Hacker News Board

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#141

Post by anonbanker » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 7:29 PM UTC

tjradcliffe wrote: post #65

rgrieselhuber wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why gun owners get nervous when people who don't understand firearms try to legislate their ownership.

Your comment implies that there are two classes of people, "gun owners who understand firearms" and "non-gun owners who do not understand firearms". A casual glance at the deplorable accidental and unintentional discharge rates in the US statistics should make it immediately clear that gun ownership and understanding firearms have absolutely nothing to do with each other. I say this as a non-gun-owner who was taught…

Expat living in Canada. I don't feel nearly as unsafe walking down the roughest block in Edmonton. I still have a decent chance of being stabbed and robbed, though; A 1:37,000 chance.

However, I am very excited to see how this technology will be used in Canada, or if it will even make a blip on the crime radar.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#142

Post by ctdonath » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 7:40 PM UTC

dreamweapon wrote: post #105

hga wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolyn_McCarthy#Gun_control last paragraph: " When [Tucker] Carlson pressed [Congresswomen Carolyn McCarthy] twice more on the question about barrel shrouds, she admitted that she did not know what a barrel shroud was, and incorrectly stated, 'I believe it is a shoulder thing that goes up.' Carlson replied with, "No, No it's not.' " In case you don't know the meaning of the word shroud:…

And your point is?

It is an anecdote representing the incredibly vast number of gaffes by those who strive to ban something they truly are grossly ignorant of.

Imagine some legislator wanting to regulate Internet usage (say, to prohibit pseudonym use) but when asked "what's a 'user ID'?" replied "it's a finger thing that goes South" - you'd say the person had absolutely no business being near a computer, much less recommending incarceration for people who chose their own unique login name. Insofar as there are a great many people who likewise have absolutely no competency regarding network usage, it would be safe to say such people should in no way be allowed to enact legislation regarding computer networks enforceable by substantial fines & imprisonment.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#143

Post by mcmancini » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 7:51 PM UTC

poopchute wrote: post #140

mcmancini wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And to underscore how a usable rifle may be constructed with readily available parts, I present a personal favorite, the AK-47 built from a receiver recycled from a shovel: http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/179192-DI...

I wouldn't exactly say those are readily available parts. The guy needed all sorts of metal working tools and a kiln to melt the shovel down.

Everything he used can be found in a home workshop, especially the workshop of someone with metalworking experience. I'd guess you'd have easier time finding these tools than a home CNC mill that can handle Al.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#144

Post by mentos » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 8:12 PM UTC

hga wrote: post #35

mentos wrote: post #34

I'm pretty sure the lethal part of the equation isn't metal receivers but gun powder and bullets. Why aren't we limiting the sale of bullets (explosives)? edit: Chris Rock said it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Db0Y4qIZ4PA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United... Except for some "slave states" as I've taken to calling them, you can buy ammo mail order, often with a statement of age or perhaps a photocopy of your drivers license. Powder, bullets, cases and primers by mail, although there may be limits to the amount of powder you can hold before the BATF wants a license, safe(r) storage, etc. And similarly your loc…

is taxing ammunition unconstitutional?

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#145

Post by hga » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 8:21 PM UTC

mentos wrote: post #144

hga wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United... Except for some "slave states" as I've taken to calling them, you can buy ammo mail order, often with a statement of age or perhaps a photocopy of your drivers license. Powder, bullets, cases and primers by mail, although there may be limits to the amount of powder you can hold before the BATF wants a license, safe(r) storage, etc. And similarly your loc…

is taxing ammunition unconstitutional?

Absolutely not: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittman%E2%80%93Robertson_Fede...

~ 10% is fine (although those of us who don't hunt want more ranges built with this money, which is happening).

Amount that are clearly so much they're intended to hamper access are unconstitutional. Ones that are structured differently have been held unconstitutional: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vo...

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#146

Post by lwhalen » Wed, Oct 01, 2014, 11:33 PM UTC

diydsp wrote: post #89

hga wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it takes a semi-auto 80% receiver and finished the remaining 20%. (And after that, "Some assembly is required," e.g http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/lid=11004/learn/ .) But if you want to be concerned, look at how utterly simple a full auto (simpler that way, e.g. firing pin is a bump in the bolt face) 9mm Sten gun is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sten (A semi-auto AR15 is a much more capable weapon, BTW.)

Sorry, i forgot to mention the numerous modifications which can make an AR-15 automatic. It's true this device alone doesn't make an automatic weapon, but it certainly catalyzes the process of making an untraceable automatic weapon. Once you have made an untraceable semi-auto AR-15 with this device, you can then make it untraceable auto with numerous ways.

Your belt-loop, or a rubber band, can make any semi-automatic firearm (pistol or rifle) 'automatic'. Check Youtube videos for 'bump-firing'. It's worth mentioning that fully-automatic firing tends to be a waste of ammo if you're trying to do any kind of accuracy shooting. Even the US Military doesn't recommend firing the M-16 (looks identical to the AR-15 you're panic-pantsing about, but only available to active duty military or those with a VERY expensive ATF 'green card') in full-auto due to accuracy concerns.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#147

Post by dllthomas » Thu, Oct 02, 2014, 12:43 AM UTC

dreamweapon wrote: post #128

hga wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The start of this sub-thread is rgrieselhuber saying " This is why gun owners get nervous when people who don't understand firearms try to legislate their ownership. "

Citing a single anecdote doesn't do much to support the insinuation that those who support firearm regulation (in general) lack a basic understanding of the issues. It doesn't make any kind of a point at all, really.

Citing a single example of a legislator talking incoherently about firearms while trying to regulate firearms seems a fairly reasonable example of "gun owners get nervous when people who don't understand firearms try to [regulate] their ownership". That makes no claim that only people who don't understand firearms try to regulate them - such a claim may or may not have been intended.

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#148

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 02, 2014, 1:02 AM UTC

Osiris wrote: post #98

ctdonath wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A casual glance at the deplorable accidental and unintentional discharge rates in the US statistics should make it immediately clear that ...there isn't a substantial problem therewith. Not zero, of course, but by your line of reasoning cars should be outlawed immediately because of the actual accidental & unintentional harm rates therewith ... and the same issue with guns being orders of magnitude less. The problem…

Cars kill tens of thousands of people a year. Human drivers should absolutely be outlawed, as soon as the technology is feasible to do so.

[deleted]

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#149

Post by PhantomGremlin » Thu, Oct 02, 2014, 1:10 AM UTC

InfiniteRand wrote: post #71

There is a potential here for there to be a change similar to the 18th century. Suddenly, non-governmental forces or fledgling governments can quickly equip a lightly armed force. For the last 1-2 centuries you needed a manufacturing infrastructure under your control, but a 3-D printer device like this (if I am understanding the article correctly, and perhaps I am not). In the 18th century, relatively low-cost and re…

I don't know where you live, but in the USA the weapons aren't an issue. This country has literally tens of millions of high quality small arms already available to the people.

Instead, the real key can be found in the words "well regulated" in the US 2nd Amendment.[1]

   "[t]he adjective 'well-regulated' implies nothing
   more than the imposition of proper discipline and
   training."

A hundred true "soldiers", well trained in small unit tactics, can easily outfight twenty times as many idealist hipsters. It doesn't matter if the hipsters have the most expensive commercial rifles or if they're using crude AK knockoffs.

The professionals will win even if they aren't "heavily armed". Because they are trained and they're not simply a disorganized mob.

In the USA, most of these professionals can be found in "a well regulated militia", which nowadays we tend to call by a slightly different name, the National Guard. [2] Every state has one, they're full of veterans of the Gulf Wars and of Afghanistan, and they're not simply "weekend warriors".

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_... [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Guard_%28United_States...

Re: The $1,200 Machine That Lets Anyone Make a Metal Gun at Home

#150

Post by diydsp » Thu, Oct 02, 2014, 1:52 AM UTC

hga wrote: post #132

seanflyon wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes those guns traceable? The fact that they have a serial number on them (which can easily be filed off)?

And why do we give a damn about tracing? It very seldom solves crimes, since the vast majority of guns used in crimes are stolen, or otherwise illegally procured, like most machine guns (all but 2 used in crimes to our knowledge. If you really want this you have probably either watched too much TV or want to score political points and harass gun stores, distributors and/or manufacturers. See Fast and Furious for the…

> And why do we give a damn about tracing?

Because you and others have been hostile toward me, claiming this device doesn't catalyze untraceable weapons.

Now you're moving the goalposts, claiming tracing doesn't actually matter.

You might interpret your own hostility as an attempt to extort confirmation in the face of invalidating evidence. You will feel much better when you admit you were wrong and go back and undo your down votes.

> It very seldom solves crimes

1. So, by your own admission, it does solve crimes, at least sometimes. So that's one reason to give a damn about the production of untraceable machine guns there. Mind you, I'm using your own words to prove my point.

2. It prevents crimes from happening. That's a second reason to give a damn about the production of untraceable machine guns.

So, where do you feel like moving the goalposts to next? Or do you want to just concede you acted to rashly and misspoke? It's a small point really and you'll feel much better if you just admit what your own words have demonstrated - this machine catalyzes the production of untraceable machine guns.