A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job • Hacker News Board

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#141

Post by zo1 » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 7:08 PM UTC

MrJagil wrote: post #3

Excellent how this problem is continuously attempted to be solved. As a wannabe programmer, one thing I always lacked from these sites was the ability to somehow see my code live. I.e. it's fun to write html and css on codecademy or python from LPTHW or whatever but how on earth do I get it on the web or assembled into .app? In actuality, the complexity that surrounds DNS providers, server apps (or whatever you call…

"Learning is fun; endless googling is not."

Searching for knowledge/information, discovering domain-specific terms, then finding their definitions... these are all very important parts of learning.

Any time I've had to get into a new domain, I start off with searching. Then you discover new terms specific to that domain, then you learn those terms, then you apply those terms to learn more in-depth topics about the domain you're learning about. Before you know it, you're a jack of a new domain (or more than a jack, if you put the time in).

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#142

Post by theFish » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 7:08 PM UTC

embwbam wrote: post #104

Last year, I tried something new. One of my friends, a Mathematician, and the smartest guy I know, was working at the library. I told him he should get into programming, and hired him as my "Apprentice". I was mentoring him directly. He was working right next to me. He was learning a lot, I was enjoying the teaching, but I could also hand him boring stuff (CSS) and he would love to do it. I paid him peanuts ($12/hr)…

I was an apprentice to a screenwriter and it worked exactly the same way. Best learning experience I had. And also the most efficient. I learned a lot, met influential people, got familiar with some tricks of the business and eventually got myself a show. All that in just two years.

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#143

Post by Schweigi » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 7:12 PM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #139

Schweigi wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have this apprenticeships in Switzerland for all kind of jobs including IT. Those apprenticeships do always end in an official degree which is controlled by the government and is the same for all professions (e.g. mechanic, electrician, nurse, construction and so on). For IT there is one apprenticeship with Software Development focus which takes 4 years and is split between school and working in the company. The c…

Doesn't this restrict the technology choices of the companies who are employing these apprentices?

The content of an apprenticeship is defined on a higher level and not by technology. So it doesn't really matter what kind of technology the company uses. Examples would be: Can read&write a spec, can develop a program based on a spec and so on. The more theoretical part is usually done in school wich all apprentice from the different companies attend.

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#144

Post by ForHackernews » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 7:14 PM UTC

terryp wrote: post #110

embwbam wrote: post #104

Last year, I tried something new. One of my friends, a Mathematician, and the smartest guy I know, was working at the library. I told him he should get into programming, and hired him as my "Apprentice". I was mentoring him directly. He was working right next to me. He was learning a lot, I was enjoying the teaching, but I could also hand him boring stuff (CSS) and he would love to do it. I paid him peanuts ($12/hr)…

I know that there's some cross-over in the Python/Scientific community with http://software-carpentry.org/ - which is interesting. I also know that in Chicago 'apprenticeship' is a word that is thrown out there a lot. http://www.8thlight.com/apprenticeship https://engineering.groupon.com/2012/software-apprenticeship... https://www.devmynd.com/jobs/apprenticeship

What distinguishes an apprenticeship from just a standard junior developer job?

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#145

Post by zo1 » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 7:17 PM UTC

JonnieCache wrote: post #85

MrJagil wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly! If 80% of practical software engineering is what i described above, then how come no one is teaching it! Also, I feel we are talking about students quite a few steps below the stage where engineer vs. academia discussions become relevant.

There's no decent way (IMO) to learn generic problem solving skills other than solving a lot of problems for yourself. That's what worries me about these bootcamp things. The comment about academia was a bit silly, true. I was trying to say that it's the only place where you can have the luxury of thinking about "pure" programming as a primary concern.

"There's no decent way (IMO) to learn generic problem solving skills other than solving a lot of problems for yourself. That's what worries me about these bootcamp things."

This! In my team, everyone comes to me for help with their problems. Generally, 75% of the time, I know the answer (because I've come across it before). And the other 25%, I solve their novel problem because I ask the right questions, and use basic problem-solving and problem-narrowing steps.

It really isn't rocket-science, it's just analytical, or problem-solving ability. I suppose it has many names. After burning much over other peoples' problems, I eventually resorted to guiding them towards the right direction. Asking them what they think is the problem, getting them to tell me their thought-processes. It's helped quite a bit...

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#146

Post by JoeAltmaier » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 7:19 PM UTC

zo1 wrote: post #145

JonnieCache wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no decent way (IMO) to learn generic problem solving skills other than solving a lot of problems for yourself. That's what worries me about these bootcamp things. The comment about academia was a bit silly, true. I was trying to say that it's the only place where you can have the luxury of thinking about "pure" programming as a primary concern.

" There's no decent way (IMO) to learn generic problem solving skills other than solving a lot of problems for yourself. That's what worries me about these bootcamp things. " This! In my team, everyone comes to me for help with their problems. Generally, 75% of the time, I know the answer (because I've come across it before). And the other 25%, I solve their novel problem because I ask the right questions, and use ba…

Bootcamp can help folks learn to use their skill, to focus on the things that matter. As my friend Tom often says when I want to reinvent the wheel, "Joe, we CAN do anything. What SHOULD we do?" That's definitely something a bootcamp can help with.

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#147

Post by lorddoig » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 7:20 PM UTC

mattetti wrote: post #73

lorddoig wrote: post #58

Without a reason to attract (relative) experts beyond philanthropy I think there's a risk that a ballooning amateur/expert ratio could soon cripple this, as happened to the way Matasano Crypto Challenges used to be run. I hate to be critical as I like the idea, and obviously there's some utility in it for experts as it is but it's much, much less so than for amateurs, and there's no reason to think that this imbalanc…

I see that as a good problem to have, if Exercism gets big enough that it's an issue Katrina will be able to adapt her product to respond to the request. Remember that this is a side, open source project, run by one person ;)

Totally agree. A completely off-topic aside (sorry) - I creeped your profile and was wondering, did you create your blog template yourself? It's pretty much exactly what I've been looking for for ages but haven't been bothered to make from scratch.

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#148

Post by bdcravens » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 7:20 PM UTC

embwbam wrote: post #104

Last year, I tried something new. One of my friends, a Mathematician, and the smartest guy I know, was working at the library. I told him he should get into programming, and hired him as my "Apprentice". I was mentoring him directly. He was working right next to me. He was learning a lot, I was enjoying the teaching, but I could also hand him boring stuff (CSS) and he would love to do it. I paid him peanuts ($12/hr)…

I'm doing that, but I'm paying more than $12/hr (more like $20)

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#149

Post by aianus » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 7:23 PM UTC

techpeace wrote: post #125

aianus wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Women especially may not have as much time to contribute, since they are likely getting paid 30% less than their male counterparts and are more likely to be single parents than men. I don't know if that's it. The undergrad population in the CS department when I was in college was 11% women (already pretty dismal) but when it came to code-heavy advanced courses like writing an operating system it dropped to 0%. I wo…

Am I correct in assuming that your assertion here is that women don't contribute to Open Source in as high a number as men because they're "unwilling to do the extra work?" This is based on your one experience in college, and its extrapolated gross generalizations. Did you happen to survey 11% of your classmates to determine their specific circumstances? Were there, perhaps, any other offerings of those same classes…

My assertion is that women shied away from this sort of unpaid time-intensive work even when they were not subject to the disadvantages you outlined (childcare and lower income). The real reason, in my opinion, must be something else.

In response to your questions: there was a single offering of the course. All of the women I encouraged to enroll said they were uninterested due to the perceived difficulty and workload. This may or may not have been a cover due to other concerns ("am I good enough?", "I heard only boys take this course", etc.). To be clear, the vast majority of men in CS were also unwilling to enroll in this course because of the workload.

Re: A Site That Teaches You to Code Well Enough to Get a Job

#150

Post by zo1 » Tue, Sep 23, 2014, 7:23 PM UTC

Spearchucker wrote: post #36

tim333 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are some fairly easy ways to get some code up if you go for the easiest solutions. eg web2py/pythonanywhere.com for Python, http://www.appgyver.com/ for javascript/phonegap apps

And here is my problem with both learning sites like this and search engines like Google. If I search for hosting JavaScript, appgyver.com doesn't feature in the results. In that scenario search is broken.

That's because there is a complete disconnect between "javascript hosting" and "AppGyver". Try being more specific:

Search for: "hosting html5 javascript steroids.js"

Because AppGyver seems to be related to some sort of JS framework called steroids.js. I'm not going to do it for you, but presumably there is a logical search chain that gets you from "javascript" or "javascript framework" to "Steroids.js".

Yes, I search a lot. It's the third most useful tool I have at my human disposal, just after "touch-typing" and "problem-solving ability".