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Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

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Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#141

Post by bellerocky »

Retric wrote: post #105
pron wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess one can argue it is a good thing about cryonics, less mourning, more hope. Not more so than in some other religions with their own versions of an afterlife. It all depends on your faith.

I find it interesting that cryonics and the singularity are both 'modern' religions with that are vary similar in tone to many past religions. They both seems reasonable on the surface, but don't really work if you dig down into the details. Much like all that new age QM BS uses a few of the right words without much substance.

> but don't really work if you dig down into the details.

Don't really work? There is no evidence that you can be brought back from cryopreservation, but assuming that it might one day be possible doesn't require throwing out all the known physical laws of the universe so it's hardly a religion.

Cryopreservation is not based on faith, it's based on a little bit of optimism. It's not a religion.

Edit: qualified on the amount of optimism required

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#142

Post by maaku »

ericb wrote: post #58
maaku wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention that people working at Alcor are also members and believers in cryonics. They wouldn't screw you over because they wouldn't want anyone screwing them over when it's their time.

Not sure cryo-preservation employees are all "believers." http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ted-williams-frozen...

The other side of the story:

http://www.alcor.org/press/response.html

(Unless your point was that Larry Johnson isn't a believer, in which case touche. But he parted with Alcor a long, long time ago.)

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#143

Post by ewoodrich »

brey wrote: post #133
FiloSottile wrote: post #39

It's fascinating, and personally a bit disturbing, to read about his death as an announcement of cryopreservation ("being cryopreserved now") instead of the sad news it is anyway ("died today"). Also the discussion here revolves around he coming back, not he leaving. Maybe it impresses me because he seemed so hopeful to be able to choose life in his post back then when he was diagnosed: "I may even still be able to w…

It sounds from the language used ("he did not want his vital functions supported any further but should be allowed to cease functioning and promptly be cryopreserved") that he didn't regard this moment as death at all - merely pausing his life until a) ALS is curable and b) we have the technology to reawaken cryopreserved people. To him, all that was worth announcing here is the cryopreservation. Who's to say he's wr…

Personally, I think cryonics is a pipe dream right now. But I completely respect and empathize with the wishes of Hal Finney to put hope into a future life, possibly without the burden of ALS that he was forced to deal with for a significant portion of his life.

If he had the means to do it, and it gave him something while he was still alive, than I would say it was worth it to him.

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#144

Post by ChuckMcM »

pron wrote: post #96
FiloSottile wrote: post #39

It's fascinating, and personally a bit disturbing, to read about his death as an announcement of cryopreservation ("being cryopreserved now") instead of the sad news it is anyway ("died today"). Also the discussion here revolves around he coming back, not he leaving. Maybe it impresses me because he seemed so hopeful to be able to choose life in his post back then when he was diagnosed: "I may even still be able to w…

> I guess one can argue it is a good thing about cryonics, less mourning, more hope. Not more so than in some other religions with their own versions of an afterlife. It all depends on your faith.

Well Cryonics is one of the few where the afterlife is back here with the rest of us. There was an interesting story where these people were revived in the future but were basically welfare cases without any of the modern implants and conveniences and no money or credit to get them they were unemployable. Then there is Woody Allen's "Sleeper" :-)

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#145

Post by ewoodrich »

bellerocky wrote: post #141
Retric wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it interesting that cryonics and the singularity are both 'modern' religions with that are vary similar in tone to many past religions. They both seems reasonable on the surface, but don't really work if you dig down into the details. Much like all that new age QM BS uses a few of the right words without much substance.

> but don't really work if you dig down into the details. Don't really work? There is no evidence that you can be brought back from cryopreservation, but assuming that it might one day be possible doesn't require throwing out all the known physical laws of the universe so it's hardly a religion. Cryopreservation is not based on faith, it's based on a little bit of optimism. It's not a religion. Edit: qualified on the…

> Cryopreservation is not based on faith, it's based on optimism.

So is religion, when you get down to it. But the optimism comes from belief in an unknowable deity rather than in future science.

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#146

Post by lilsunnybee »

eudox wrote: post #15
mef wrote: post #6

Interesting that someone would choose to be cryopreserved somewhere where there's no legal assisted suicide. Wouldn't your chances of being successfully revived improve if you got cryopreserved while still alive?

Active shutdown is certainly preferable, but to the best of my knowledge is only legal in Switzerland.

More than just Switzerland. From the Wikipedia euthanasia page:

Jurisdictions where euthanasia or assisted suicide is legal include the Netherlands, Belgium, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Estonia, Albania, the US states of Washington, Oregon and Montana, and, starting in 2015, the Canadian Province of Quebec.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#147

Post by pron »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #144
pron wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess one can argue it is a good thing about cryonics, less mourning, more hope. Not more so than in some other religions with their own versions of an afterlife. It all depends on your faith.

Well Cryonics is one of the few where the afterlife is back here with the rest of us. There was an interesting story where these people were revived in the future but were basically welfare cases without any of the modern implants and conveniences and no money or credit to get them they were unemployable. Then there is Woody Allen's "Sleeper" :-)

> Well Cryonics is one of the few where the afterlife is back here with the rest of us.

I would argue that that's not the case. See my other comment here, contrasting cryonics with reincarnation: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8239950

> There was an interesting story where these people were revived in the future but were basically welfare cases...

Some religions have two versions of the afterlife: there's heaven, and then there's hell...

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#149

Post by TeMPOraL »

jacquesm wrote: post #70
tomjen3 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Words have meaning. When we hit the edge of technology those meanings tends to be obscure or wrong and so we need a new word. Murder is so final, while this is more akind to shutting down a computer that you hope to be able to start up again. Hence active shutdown being a more appropriate idea.

Until someone is revived we can consider it final.

Well, the whole idea of cryopreservation is that it's a hedge against the progress of technology. One can't be sure we'll ever get to the required level of development (in my belief, we will inevitably, if we won't destroy our civilization beforehand), but it's still better than Just Dying, and - as opposed to religious afterlife vision - it's clear that restoring a cryopreserved person is possible in principle.

Re: Hal Finney being cryopreserved now

#150

Post by jedberg »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #144
pron wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess one can argue it is a good thing about cryonics, less mourning, more hope. Not more so than in some other religions with their own versions of an afterlife. It all depends on your faith.

Well Cryonics is one of the few where the afterlife is back here with the rest of us. There was an interesting story where these people were revived in the future but were basically welfare cases without any of the modern implants and conveniences and no money or credit to get them they were unemployable. Then there is Woody Allen's "Sleeper" :-)

There's also a fun Star Trek TNG about the crew finding a spaceship with three cryogenically preserved people from the 1990s: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Neutral_Zone_(Star_Trek:_Th...
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