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Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

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Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that a great deal of the problems associated with heroin addiction come from the very fact that it is illegal? The crime, the marginalization from society, the lack of access to health care or rehabilitation clinics, these things all make the addiction far, far worse than if we treated this whole thing a little saner and more compassionately.

>>> The crime, the marginalization from society, the lack of access to health care or rehabilitation clinics Where do you live? There's a myriad of state and federally funded programs here in the US that help people get treatment for a nominal fee or in many cases for free. Not sure how much more compassionate you can be when you're giving people a free alternative to get clean. Also, if you've never had an addict fo…

The marginalization comes from the fact that you can't participate in society if you are a drug user/abuser. Even if you are healthy enough to be a productive, upstanding member in every other way, the system is designed to tear you down at any moment, based on nothing but the fact that you use an illegal substance. Some people use regularly, but can still maintain and even excel in a job, and keep a healthy social life without anyone even being aware of the drug use or addiction. But they have to live with the knowledge that they are one drug screening away from being out of a job, regardless of performance, and that they can always be arrested the next time they have to purchase their vice, which would likely also lead to loss of a job and social ramifications.

If we treated addicts the same way we treated someone with any other mental or physical ailment, it would make it so much easier for them to actually function in society without "getting clean". Which might actually help a few of the ones who want to get clean, because from what I understand, it is much easier to kick a habit when you have more going for you, like a career and social life.

Just my two cents, from anecdotal evidence knowing drug users in a few different circumstances. Never been a user myself.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#142
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As others have pointed out, alcohol very much is physically addictive. As for heroin, the rates of addiction to heroin amongst heroin users is similar to that of alcohol - most heroin users are casual users, just like most users of alcohol. You just don't see the casual heroin users as easily, because they don't exactly advertise what they do. Nor do you see the large proportion of heroin addicts that manage to lead…

Ok naieve non-user here, no idea what heroin use is like except what I see in the media. But it takes some kind of nerves to inject a drug, unlike say drinking from a glass or lighting up. I have to believe heroin is the resort of fairly desperate people. Some emotional or physical compulsion must exist to overcome the natural inclination to not jab yourself with a needle. So I have to believe the risk of heroin use…

I've never used anything stronger than caffeine and alcohol myself, so this is all from reading and some limited experiences with people who have used drugs.

For starters, injection is not the only way to take heroin. It's also smoked, snorted and sniffed. But you are right - heroin is rarely the first drug of choice for anyone. It's not glamorous, and it has a "bad image". Thankfully that reduces recruitment. However once people have tried it, the "natural inclination to not jab yourself with a needle" is quickly overcome with habituation.

A substantial gateway to heroin usage is abuse of other opoids such as prescription painkillers. Ironically many of the people who make the switch does so because they find heroin is cheaper and more easily accessible than commonly prescribed opoids that are often safer (not least because they're of predictable strength), available in pill form etc.

I haven't looked up any significant studies at source, but here's an article from the National Institute on Drug Abuse that claims that 23% of heroin users become dependent [1], and an article [2] that covers some work on the subject of heroin addiction and casual use, though, that includes the following quote:

"In the early 1970s, researcher Lee N. Robins led a study commissioned by the Department of Defense that followed tens of thousands of Vietnam War veterans as they returned to the U.S. Use of narcotics and heroin was rampant among soldiers stationed in Southeast Asia, with as many 20% showing signs of addiction. Yet during the first year back, “only 5% of those who had been addicted in Vietnam were addicted in the U.S.” and “at three years, only 12% of those addicted in Vietnam had been addicted at any time in the three years since return, and for those readdicted, the addiction had usually been very brief.” It wasn’t for lack of access to junk, either: half of the returning addicts said they’d tried heroin at least once since arriving back home.

As my Reason colleague Jacob Sullum has documented, such take-it-or-leave-it findings are common in drug research. In his 2004 book Saying Yes and other places, he’s detailed work in which researchers find a surprising range among heroin users, including a study that concluded, “It seems possible for young people from a number of different backgrounds, family patterns and educational abilities to use heroin occasionally without becoming addicted.”

The 23% number above is the highest estimate of percentage of addicts amongst heroin users I've ever seen, and as far as I understand it reflects the lifetime risk of becoming addicted at some time. As noted in the quote from the Time article, many addicts go on to stay free of abuse for years at a time subsequent to becoming addicted.

But to be clear, whether at 23% or 10% or 2%, heroin addiction is not something to take lightly. It's a nasty drug. However, it's not nearly as nasty as it is generally portrayed, and many of the biggest problems for heroin users, and addicts, are a result of it's status as an illegal drug rather than due to the drug itself. Secondly, as noted above, many of them come to heroin due to lack of access to other, safer, drugs - a typical cascading problems with drug abuse.

My "closest encounter" with heroin for my own part was working with an addict - a well functioning one for most of the time I knew him. As for many heroin addicts, he first ran into problems when prices spiked overnight due to supply problems: Suddenly it was hard for him to feed his habit from his normal income, and he started spending a disproportionate amount of time on the phone, seemed jittery and nervous, and eventually a couple of k disappeared from the till at the store he co-owned, and he disappeared for a couple of days before checking himself into rehab.

That's the first we knew of his addiction.

As long as he had a steady supply, he was a nice, hard-working family man with a loving wife and son that knew little to nothing about his addiction. That's not to say that the heroin was not a problem for him - he was certainly an addict, and it certainly would affect his health over time. But he was far from the typical image of heroin addicts you get from anti-drug propaganda. He opened my eyes to considering that the addicts you see sleeping rough etc. are not the full set of heroin addicts, or even most.

As with alcohol use, heroin addicts also manage to function in many or most cases, and as with alcohol use, most users are not addicts - not even according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse with their 23% number. The biggest challenge to keeping things together for the guy in question was finding a safe and stable supply for whenever he felt unable to stay clean. The biggest threat for him, then, was government drug enforcement supposedly there to keep us safe from drugs, that prevented him from getting a guaranteed clean supply at a cost that could let him focus on fixing his life and keeping his job and family, and that would have substantially reduced his health risks.

I used to be against all legalisation, but I've come to see almost all anti-drug legislation as downright immoral. Even when it comes to heroin. It doesn't mean I think it ought to be available at the grocery store next to the milk, but I do think trying to prevent access has a vastly higher human cost than allowing carefully regulated sale would.

[1] http://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/heroin

[2] http://ideas.time.com/2013/11/21/trey-radel-scandal-whats-so...

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok naieve non-user here, no idea what heroin use is like except what I see in the media. But it takes some kind of nerves to inject a drug, unlike say drinking from a glass or lighting up. I have to believe heroin is the resort of fairly desperate people. Some emotional or physical compulsion must exist to overcome the natural inclination to not jab yourself with a needle. So I have to believe the risk of heroin use…

Because IV is the only way to do heroin. Lots of "casual drug users" are into pills/narcotics, which end up being too expensive, so they get into heroin and wreck themselves. To be fair I only know a couple people who say they "occasionally do heroin" and I'm not sure if I believe them, but I would say a huge proportion of heroin users do not initially IV(you can smoke or snort, same with crystal, people tend to prog…

IV isn't the only way to do heroin. It is however the most "effective" way to do heroin, both in terms of cost and high, and cost is often one of the things that drives people from prescription opiates to heroin.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#145
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok naieve non-user here, no idea what heroin use is like except what I see in the media. But it takes some kind of nerves to inject a drug, unlike say drinking from a glass or lighting up. I have to believe heroin is the resort of fairly desperate people. Some emotional or physical compulsion must exist to overcome the natural inclination to not jab yourself with a needle. So I have to believe the risk of heroin use…

I've never used anything stronger than caffeine and alcohol myself, so this is all from reading and some limited experiences with people who have used drugs. For starters, injection is not the only way to take heroin. It's also smoked, snorted and sniffed. But you are right - heroin is rarely the first drug of choice for anyone. It's not glamorous, and it has a "bad image". Thankfully that reduces recruitment. Howeve…

I would call 23% a terrible number! From your account, these folks are hemorrhaging money, stealing from the till and totally dependent on their supply. Those don't describe a well-functioning adult.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#146
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for making nicotine illegal. Alcohol isn't physically addictive like heroin. >just that the potential for physical addiction maybe isn't the best marker for legalization. Probably better than the current standards. I'd love to live somewhere where cigarettes were illegal and pot wasn't.

As others have pointed out, alcohol very much is physically addictive. As for heroin, the rates of addiction to heroin amongst heroin users is similar to that of alcohol - most heroin users are casual users, just like most users of alcohol. You just don't see the casual heroin users as easily, because they don't exactly advertise what they do. Nor do you see the large proportion of heroin addicts that manage to lead…

> alcohol very much is physically addictive

> nicotine on its own is not particularly addictive

No drug is addictive. This word "addictive" is a rhetorical strategy to shift the blame from people's genetic and psychological predispositions onto a substance that by itself is harmless.

I drink alcohol about once every two months. I'm not addicted to it. Therefore, alcohol is not "addictive". It only takes one counter-example to disprove that assertion.

I've also tried cigarettes in the past. Never got addicted. So it can't be that nicotine is "addictive".

Nothing is "addictive". People are either more prone to forming habits around certain substances and behaviors, or they aren't.

This is important because thinking that substances are to blame is what got them banned in the first place, and that is the wrong approach to the problem of treating people with strong habits around unhealthy substances. This point of view only harms those that need the most help. They cannot help that they have certain genes or that their brains are wired in a certain way.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#147
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is such a thing as responsible, low-level alcohol consumption that doesn't turn into a spiral of addiction and self-destruction. Same with LSD. Not so much with heroin.

> There is such a thing as responsible, low-level alcohol consumption That responsible low-level use tends to need strong laws to enforce it. Minimum unit pricing (which only affects the very cheap, poor quality end of the market); tight alcohol and drivng limits; time restrictions on serving alcohol. See eg the measures that France brought in (less dead people from cirrhosis; less dead and injured from traffic accid…

Many of those costs are directly related to suburban car culture. When you take the subway anyway, risks are much lower.

I would argue that people drinking enough to incur liver damage are doing so not because alcohol is addictive but because they have other psychological issues for which alcohol is the only effective relief. In which case, if it weren't for alcohol, they'd do something else. You can't make the whole world a padded cell.

Re: Vermont Quits War on Drugs to Treat Heroin Abuse as Health Issue

#148
post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fantastic argument for strong states' rights and less-overbearing / centralized policy from Washington. Let the states be compared against one another and measure the results: if heroin abuse skyrockets in Vermont, then other states could avoid their policy mistakes. If something works incredibly well in a couple states, then it would be appropriate to implement broad, federal rules codifying the success in…

I thought states' rights was just a code phrase for racism? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States'_rights#Controversy

I hope you will think differently in the future :-)
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