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Nobody. Understands. Punctuation.

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Re: Nobody. Understands. Punctuation.

#141

Post by Hello71 »

teamonkey wrote: post #123
anigbrowl wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true, but that's also why it doesn't work. Think about the stress patterns that actually constitute rhythm: momENtum, SYNcoPATion, RHYthm and PATtern ___--___ ---__---___ ---___ ___ ---____ Nonomatapoeia, I fear.

I 'hear' only one stress in each. moMENtum [beat] syncoPATion [beat] rhythm-and-PATtern [no beat so continues straight on] And all three patterns, including the beat, take the same time, with the remainder of the sentence continuing at the same speed as PATtern.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rhythm: /ˈɹɪ.ð(ə)m/

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pattern: /ˈpat(ə)n/ or /ˈpædəɹn/

Re: Nobody. Understands. Punctuation.

#143

Post by mandor »

marmarlade wrote: post #17

I was never taught about the Oxford Comma (I'm not a native speaker), but trained myself to use it consistently after seeing this http://jaced.com/blogpix/2013/washingtonlincolnoxford.jpg . This has made me rethink though - he makes a great point that writing is about transferring the voices in my head into the readers', so I'll keep that in mind for any creative writing. Heck, not just creative writing, I can think…

It's true that there is no equivalent of the Oxford comma in many languages (e.g., in French, you should not use it). The comma is a trap for non-native writers! ;)

Re: Nobody. Understands. Punctuation.

#145

Post by _archon_ »

peterashford wrote: post #115

I enjoyed this essay immensely. I'm a bit of a pedant and a language geek (I have a collection of favourite archaisms!) but my favourite saying about our language is: "English is a juggernaut truck: it goes on regardless" I find it useful to say that to myself when I encounter some of the net's more egregious assaults on the language. It's not an assault, it's the language doing what it does.

Have you published your list? I, for one, would like to peruse it.

Re: Nobody. Understands. Punctuation.

#147

Post by dedward »

saurik wrote: post #2

> An Oxford comma is not a flip switch in an author's voice, it's a decision made in the moment to maintain the flow of the idea. I am more than happy to truly believe this premise (and if you read some of the things I write, and how I use punctuation, I hope the reader will agree ;P), and can come up with situations where the extra comma "breaks the rythm" and cases where it "makes the sentence". > Momentum, syncopa…

To your second point - I wondered about it to - as logically I think like you do here.

Interestingly, though, when I read this the first time, I thought that last comma was there. It was only when I checked again that I realized it was not.

The pause is very natural and normal - but the comma seems unimportant for practical purposes.

Re: Nobody. Understands. Punctuation.

#148

Post by pradocchia »

Stratoscope wrote: post #40

Most of the time, you can use the Oxford comma, the non-Oxford comma or any other kind of comma, and it just doesn't make any difference. But sometimes you need it. Here's an example: "There are two hard problems in Computer Science: naming things, cache expiration, and off-by-one errors." Take out the comma and you ruin the joke - at least to my ears: "There are two hard problems in Computer Science: naming things,…

I will grant that the first form is clearly [0, 1, 2], while the second form could be construed as [0, [1, 2]].

HOWEVER, given that there is no "and" between 0 & 1, and that 1 & 2 are not like things, I believe most readers will naturally interpret the list as [0, 1, 2] and not [0, [1, 2]]. There are enough other cues that risk of misinterpretation is very low. Anyone who does interpret as [0, [1, 2]] is probably being willfully obtuse.

Re: Nobody. Understands. Punctuation.

#149

Post by aninhumer »

Bud wrote: post #32
lambda wrote: post #13

Ouch. Fairly nicely written piece about punctuation, and generally nicely formatted with justification, properly indented paragraphs, use of em dashes, and so on; and then it uses straight quotes everywhere. While I'm generally used to straight quotes everywhere on the web, the additional standard set by the rest of the typesetting and the topic meant that their omission here was that much more glaring.

The piece also asserted that "word" and "whirred" are "pronounced exactly the same". They aren't. The first consonant is different; IPA [w] vs. IPA [hw].

For me, it's the same consonant, but the vowel sound is very slightly longer in "whirred".

Re: Nobody. Understands. Punctuation.

#150

Post by teamonkey »

Hello71 wrote: post #141
teamonkey wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I 'hear' only one stress in each. moMENtum [beat] syncoPATion [beat] rhythm-and-PATtern [no beat so continues straight on] And all three patterns, including the beat, take the same time, with the remainder of the sentence continuing at the same speed as PATtern.

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rhythm : /ˈɹɪ.ð(ə)m/ https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/pattern : /ˈpat(ə)n/ or /ˈpædəɹn/

I do have an English (UK) accent if that helps. But of course it's not unusual to stress different syllables when reading poetry or prose for effect.
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