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Apple Introduces iOS 8

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Re: Apple Introduces iOS 8

#141

Post by duncan_bayne »

skeletonjelly wrote: post #129
duncan_bayne wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because iOS devices are single-user by design. Think of the amount of cruft you could cut from your average desktop OS if you didn't have to support multiple users. (I assume that, being UNIX under the hood, there actually are multiple users on an iOS device, for security. But these would presumably be invisible to the user, and not usable as login accounts).

That's some circular logic right there. You can't create a login because they're single user by design?

Yes. How is that circular? The OP is asking why he can't create separate logins on iOS devices. My answer: because Apple decided to make them single-user, presumably because of the simplicity and UX benefits to be had from that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

Re: Apple Introduces iOS 8

#142

Post by skeletonjelly »

duncan_bayne wrote: post #141
skeletonjelly wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's some circular logic right there. You can't create a login because they're single user by design?

Yes. How is that circular? The OP is asking why he can't create separate logins on iOS devices. My answer: because Apple decided to make them single-user, presumably because of the simplicity and UX benefits to be had from that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_reasoning

Here's how I read the conversation.

> Why can't I create multiple accounts? I want this feature.

> Because iOS is single-user.

It's not circular sorry, I meant to say your answer is stating the question.

I don't mean to offend or start a fight. I just read the conversation similar to "I have X why can't I have Y" "Because you have "X". The "by design" is moot when Apple are the designers. It's not some real world construct or difficult problem to solve, they don't have multi-user because they don't want IOS to have multiuser.

Re: Apple Introduces iOS 8

#143

Post by BugBrother »

MichaelGG wrote: post #116
BugBrother wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I reluctantly don't jailbreak my iPhone/iPad despite that I of course want shell, emacs, Perl, etc on all my devices. This is because I want to feel safe with my i.* things while using my bank applications and buying stuff from iTunes.

If the Jailbreak exists, doesn't that mean there is an unpatched security hole in your version of iOS?

Not really.

I'm no expert (as I wrote), but afaik the app install process (iTunes style) is sidetracked by running a program to install an App on your trusted computer.

Then you run the app.

I only use iTunes when I update the music on the iPhone, not programs. I assume most people do the same these days. (iOS 5?)

(But certainly, there is a possibility here -- maybe iTunes might tell the iDevice to update an application without informing the user? I can't say, Objective C was too much like Java for me. :-) I don't keep music on the iPad, so that is no problem.)

Re: Apple Introduces iOS 8

#144

Post by interpol_p »

criley2 wrote: post #36
untog wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? The intends system of Android is amazing, and I use it heavily. It was absolutely a blocker for me switching to iOS.

Because third party iOS developers are still second class citizens compared to Apple in-house developers. Google doesn't make third party developers second class citizens: it makes apps using the same tools and apis as available to everyone, and distributes them the same way that everyone else distributes their apps. This is a step forward for Apple, but for example: Safari will remain the only browser available on i…

> Google doesn't make third party developers second class citizens: it makes apps using the same tools and apis as available to everyone, and distributes them the same way that everyone else distributes their apps.

This is exactly my problem with Google. They seem to prioritise developers over users. Apple does the opposite. As a developer I prefer this — I've been rejected many times, and many times it was because I failed to do something for my users.

I don't trust most developers to do right by their users. I don't trust them to respect user privacy, store data securely, ensure decent battery life, not be lazy, and so on. Developers don't have the right to develop for and sell on whatever store they want; they should follow the rules if they want their software on someone else's store.

The Safari UIWebView thing relates to memory protection. And really, there's not that much of a difference (I use JavaScriptCore pretty heavily at times).

Which Apple APIs, specifically, are you complaining about? As far as I see, the vast majority of what we use, Apple uses. Their APIs are often elegant and very well thought out. Also powerful.

Re: Apple Introduces iOS 8

#145

Post by keehun »

wan23 wrote: post #125
dpcan wrote: post #118

Still no user accounts on iPad. The only thing I want, and 8 versions in, it's still not there. Why I can't create a login for my kids on my iPad that hides my mail, calendar, certain games, etc? I don't understand why this isn't possible.

They announced new family features today that imply that they think each family member should have his/her own device.

It sure seems like it. In addition, the way Apple is starting to build out parental controls per app, it seems like they don't intend on having multiple user accounts on each device in the near future.

Re: Apple Introduces iOS 8

#146

Post by mikeash »

duncan_bayne wrote: post #121
dpcan wrote: post #118

Still no user accounts on iPad. The only thing I want, and 8 versions in, it's still not there. Why I can't create a login for my kids on my iPad that hides my mail, calendar, certain games, etc? I don't understand why this isn't possible.

Because iOS devices are single-user by design. Think of the amount of cruft you could cut from your average desktop OS if you didn't have to support multiple users. (I assume that, being UNIX under the hood, there actually are multiple users on an iOS device, for security. But these would presumably be invisible to the user, and not usable as login accounts).

What cruft?

Have a button somewhere that lets you switch to a different user. When you switch, you enter that other user's PIN or password. Then you see their apps, have their data, etc. When you switch back, you see your apps, have your data, etc.

It doesn't have to be very complicated. Even on a Mac, the "cruft" amounts to my name sitting in the menu bar, and having to choose who to log in as before I put in my password.

Re: Apple Introduces iOS 8

#147

Post by keehun »

J-H wrote: post #2

The new texting suggestions in QuickType are awesome (if it works as suggested).

It does. It sometimes blocks the main interface from updating (doesn't seem perfectly optimized or parallelized yet). It's also on an iPhone 4S which is the oldest iPhone they support.

Re: Apple Introduces iOS 8

#148

Post by wildpeaks »

bicubic wrote: post #126
threeseed wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> True competition is prevented by design. You really think Apple is threatened by the competition posed by an alternative keyboard or browser ? Pretty sure they care far more about maintaining their "99% of malware" exists on Android record.

Regarding alternative browsers, yeah I think they might be. Safari and UIWebView intentionally disable webgl ( http://atnan.com/blog/2011/11/03/enabling-and-using-webgl-on... ). The official reason is security but given that webgl has been running on Android and desktop browsers without incident and that its present in Safari Mobile and merely disabled , its more likely that Apple doesn't want to have webgl based app…

WebGL works in iOS8, no longer disabled :)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7837899

Re: Apple Introduces iOS 8

#149

Post by mikeash »

Terretta wrote: post #120
slipshod wrote: post #108

Totally on a tangent here, but I find myself disappointed, again. I'm a long time hobbyist programmer, got my start back in the days of Apple IIe, got my first Mac in 1984...and I'm still not switching back to iPhone until I can write my own software and run it on my own phone without paying Apple for the privilege. I'm waiting for two simple words: "Unknown sources". Guess I have to wait some more. Not sure how low…

I think you missed that the App Store is an iPhone afterthought -- the original, still supported, intent was to support HTML5 apps installed to your home screen. You can write your own software, run it on any iOS device, share it with others, even sell it without anyone's permission. Here is a PacMan style game, for example: http://mrgan.tumblr.com/post/257187093/pie-guy If that's not "hobbyist" friendly, I don't kno…

It's an awful way to program. You don't get a choice of languages. There's no debugger. There isn't even an easily accessible console log to print to. It's like trying to assemble a watch, in the dark, while wearing mittens. You can do it, but it's not terribly fun.

There's a reason that there was a massive developer outcry at the "sweet solution" of HTML5 apps, causing Apple to release a native SDK instead.

Re: Apple Introduces iOS 8

#150

Post by mikeash »

pandatigox wrote: post #119
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #17

I was really hoping for split screen multitasking (which Windows 8 on tablets does a good job of). I heard it was possible, but was having problems getting it out the door in time. I really hope it comes out in the final version of iOS 8, because that's the one thing that would tempt be to get a Surface over the next iteration of the iPad.

I think there's a jailbreak thing for that

While jailbreak hacks are really cool, you can't really base any long-term decisions (like hardware purchases) around them, because jailbreaks are so unpredictable. It's a crapshoot as to whether any given OS version will have a jailbreak, and who knows how long it will take. Even if you wait for the jailbreak to be released, there's no real guarantee you can keep it. The next OS release will probably break it, and even if you refrain from upgrading, it's likely that you'll eventually be forced to upgrade due to a hardware failure, OS corruption, inadvertent button press, massive widespread security hole, etc. And good ol' Apple doesn't let you install older OSes after new versions come out, even on hardware that supports them.
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