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What are common mistakes that new or inexperienced managers make?

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Re: What are common mistakes that new or inexperienced managers make?

#141

Post by err4nt »

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #14

I probably have made all of those mistakes at one time or another. Some of the mistakes where bad enough to nearly sink a company. Hopefully I make fewer of them now. It is humbling to have a great team actually letting you manage them, especially when you mess up and the tell you and they let you learn from your mistakes. When you have teams like that it is easy to manage. If you do, take really good care of your te…

I have a hard time respecting the authority of people who are visibly fallible. It has led to me pursuing a working relationship where I'm a self-directed independent worker in more of a team where we each have our own corner to nibble away at and that has been working well.

Lately I have felt the desire within me to lead, or to create employment for others as I see so many of my peers selling themselves short, slaving away for terrible managers who have no idea what managing is.

I'm grateful to see you and others in this thread who approach management with a 'what can I do for these people' attitude. Do you have any advice for a young guy like me who one day wants to be one of the 'good managers' or hire people under me but has zero management experience so far?

I'm thinking it might be good for me to run workshops or hackathon projects or short-term commitments to limit my faults so if I make a mistake it's over soon and I can reflect on it and do better next time. Do you think a lot of short-term projects would be like management training speed-dating, or is there a better way to work on these skills?

Re: What are common mistakes that new or inexperienced managers make?

#142

Post by logfromblammo »

netcan wrote: post #115
IgorPartola wrote: post #27

So at one point I took on a management job, stepping up from a (lead) developer. I felt like the whole thing was kind of a train wreck and I am still slowly analyzing the black box recordings from it. This was my first time having direct reports that were not one or two interns and managing a team of seven other highly intelligent people was quite a chore in itself. What bugged me is that I could never tell if the pr…

It's a long read, so of it doesn't grab you don't read it. This might explain everything you experienced: http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-o...

I love that article. It fits so well with my anecdotal experience that it hurts. Unfortunately, it has made me cynical, since it essentially means that I can't advance within a typical business organization without becoming either predator or livestock.

The grandparent poster slots neatly into the model as a loser selected by a psycho to be promoted to clueless just long enough to absorb the blame for something. After the misdirection, the clueless is discarded, along with any losers that may have attached too strongly. The situation was designed to terminate in failure, as a reset button, so that the psycho in charge could turn a few clicks on his career ratchet.

Re: What are common mistakes that new or inexperienced managers make?

#143

Post by IgorPartola »

Tactic wrote: post #128
IgorPartola wrote: post #27

So at one point I took on a management job, stepping up from a (lead) developer. I felt like the whole thing was kind of a train wreck and I am still slowly analyzing the black box recordings from it. This was my first time having direct reports that were not one or two interns and managing a team of seven other highly intelligent people was quite a chore in itself. What bugged me is that I could never tell if the pr…

You were in a losing situation from the start. You were selected to be the heavy, the patsy and the scapegoat all in one. It is clear from what you have said that your people were overworked, deadlines were not reasonable and there were not enough proper employees. Yet management persisted with their existing paradigm and you got to be the one that bore the bad news to everyone so they all resented you. The best you…

Thanks. The money thing is tough. On the one hand, I do believe that the company had negative cash flow and was a few months away from closing the doors unless sales ramped up. On the other hand, part of the problem was that new upper management was brought in to replace the CEO who was not doing anything for the company and I believe they took quite a large salary, possibly enough to make take the company from positive cash flow to negative.

At the end of the day, the dev team pulled through and got product out the door, warts and all. This then enabled sales and other teams to get more clients on board and paying, which actually saved the company.

Re: What are common mistakes that new or inexperienced managers make?

#144

Post by IgorPartola »

netcan wrote: post #115
IgorPartola wrote: post #27

So at one point I took on a management job, stepping up from a (lead) developer. I felt like the whole thing was kind of a train wreck and I am still slowly analyzing the black box recordings from it. This was my first time having direct reports that were not one or two interns and managing a team of seven other highly intelligent people was quite a chore in itself. What bugged me is that I could never tell if the pr…

It's a long read, so of it doesn't grab you don't read it. This might explain everything you experienced: http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-o...

Wow, that is a great read! Thanks! It definitely explains quite a bit.

Re: What are common mistakes that new or inexperienced managers make?

#145

Post by netcan »

logfromblammo wrote: post #142
netcan wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a long read, so of it doesn't grab you don't read it. This might explain everything you experienced: http://www.ribbonfarm.com/2009/10/07/the-gervais-principle-o...

I love that article. It fits so well with my anecdotal experience that it hurts. Unfortunately, it has made me cynical, since it essentially means that I can't advance within a typical business organization without becoming either predator or livestock. The grandparent poster slots neatly into the model as a loser selected by a psycho to be promoted to clueless just long enough to absorb the blame for something. Afte…

Yeah. It's a neat fit.

Every time I re-read that article I start seeing sociopaths and losers and 'HIWTYL machinations' everywhere. It's like a 16 year old reading Marx or Ayn Rand seeing reactionaries & class consciousness (or government looters and self righteous moochers) everywhere.

Borderline embarrassing.

Re: What are common mistakes that new or inexperienced managers make?

#146

Post by Confusion »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #26
ryanburk wrote: post #3

the top answer is really well done, but lacks the gem from the second answer: "One of the major rookie mistakes I have made and see many others make is the assumption that human motivation is tied to economic outcomes" put another way - you might have a personal ambition to have a title like "VP of Engineering" or make $500k a year, but most others don't. so if you project your motivations / world view on those who w…

I've found its common in a new manager to assume that their people want the same things they want. Happens in relationships too, people act in a way they want to be treated, not in the way the other person wants to be treated.

I'd say it's common in a many people, much of the time, unless they have been made aware of this and are capable, naturally or after training, to consciously think of how people may differ from you.

I'm still stuck at 'training'.

Re: What are common mistakes that new or inexperienced managers make?

#147

Post by logfromblammo »

netcan wrote: post #145
logfromblammo wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love that article. It fits so well with my anecdotal experience that it hurts. Unfortunately, it has made me cynical, since it essentially means that I can't advance within a typical business organization without becoming either predator or livestock. The grandparent poster slots neatly into the model as a loser selected by a psycho to be promoted to clueless just long enough to absorb the blame for something. Afte…

Yeah. It's a neat fit. Every time I re-read that article I start seeing sociopaths and losers and 'HIWTYL machinations' everywhere. It's like a 16 year old reading Marx or Ayn Rand seeing reactionaries & class consciousness (or government looters and self righteous moochers) everywhere. Borderline embarrassing.

(HIWTYL = Heads I Win, Tails You Lose)

It's very much like a daily horoscope. Make your classifications broad enough and people can cram anything into the pigeonholes. You could classify people as having "convex" and "concave" personalities, and the true believers would be able to classify everyone into those categories.

The (Gervais) psycho-clueless-loser model basically says that parasitism as a strategy is as successful in human social interaction as it is in biology, if not more so. The sociopaths rise to the top because the clueless have not evolved a defense mechanism. The losers have evolved the defense mechanism of generating no excess productivity.

None of the models you mention--Gervais, Marx, or Rand--really say anything other than some people are selfish pricks, and that other people react negatively to that. And there really are selfish pricks everywhere you look. Giving them a new name is almost like finding a new species of beetle.

You can join them, support them, or resist them. There are positive and negative consequences for each choice. What you can't do is eradicate them, because being a selfish prick is a choice, and anyone with free will can make that choice at any moment.

Re: What are common mistakes that new or inexperienced managers make?

#148

Post by logfromblammo »

IgorPartola wrote: post #143
Tactic wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You were in a losing situation from the start. You were selected to be the heavy, the patsy and the scapegoat all in one. It is clear from what you have said that your people were overworked, deadlines were not reasonable and there were not enough proper employees. Yet management persisted with their existing paradigm and you got to be the one that bore the bad news to everyone so they all resented you. The best you…

Thanks. The money thing is tough. On the one hand, I do believe that the company had negative cash flow and was a few months away from closing the doors unless sales ramped up. On the other hand, part of the problem was that new upper management was brought in to replace the CEO who was not doing anything for the company and I believe they took quite a large salary, possibly enough to make take the company from posit…

So the executive office was bleeding the company dry. You, as a middle manager, put in extra effort to save the company. As a result, you lost your middle manager job. You were replaced by three different people.

Were you rewarded in any way for your efforts?

Re: What are common mistakes that new or inexperienced managers make?

#149

Post by lugg »

mgkimsal wrote: post #85
nostrademons wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to interview people for Google, and "I don't know but here's how I would go about finding out" almost never counted against candidates. What would count against a candidate is if they made a wrong assumption and then blindly proceeded as if that assumption was correct.

What if they said they'd bing for the answer? Would that count against them?

Why would it count against them theyed still get google search results.

Re: What are common mistakes that new or inexperienced managers make?

#150

Post by orware »

ryanburk wrote: post #44
jevanish wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the amazing things I've learned as a manager is how much you can get out of asking people what they want. Many people haven't really thought about it and so you end up going on a fun journey helping them figure it out. Usually, you discover over time that there are a lot of things more important than money. Being the manager that helped them figure out what they really want (and hopefully get closer to it) bui…

this is really good advice. I learned from a superb mentor Laurie Litwack who was a great program manager at microsoft that you should learn about each of your reports "heart, tree, star". heart: what do you love? tree: what / where do you want to grow? star: how do you feel rewarded? especially in an environment where you can juggle awards, this can be really helpful, if someone values a bonus and someone else value…

Interesting...I just ran a Google Search on that one (Heart-Tree-Star) and it came up with a SlideShare presentation from another Microsoft guy mentioning "Meng Phua" as the originator for him...seems like it was taught to quite a few of the folks there at Microsoft at one point perhaps?

http://www.slideshare.net/kaykas/career-planning-framework-h...

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