What If U.S. Cities Just Stopped Participating in the War on Drugs? • Hacker News Board

Re: What If U.S. Cities Just Stopped Participating in the War on Drugs?

#141

Post by Natsu » Tue, May 20, 2014, 2:58 AM UTC

neurobro wrote: post #133

Natsu wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This assumes they are employable and thereby able to afford it. And by "employable", I mean able to work, not merely able to pass background checks though the two are interrelated (i.e. there are rational business reasons to consider it a negative factor). I have worked at a place that did not screen out such (a factory, one of the few places, as I understand it, where you could get employed with a record). We're tal…

I worked in an office that did perform background checks and wouldn't hire ex-convicts. Curiously, the drug addicts who worked there tended to be highly functional and even successful. Crap, our anecdotes paint different pictures. Could it be that neither of our samples is representative of "drug users" as a population?

Someone who hid their illegal activities so well must have been a skilled liar. And skilled liars are often highly successful, but this isn't often argued as a good thing...

Re: What If U.S. Cities Just Stopped Participating in the War on Drugs?

#142

Post by neurobro » Tue, May 20, 2014, 2:31 PM UTC

Natsu wrote: post #141

neurobro wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in an office that did perform background checks and wouldn't hire ex-convicts. Curiously, the drug addicts who worked there tended to be highly functional and even successful. Crap, our anecdotes paint different pictures. Could it be that neither of our samples is representative of "drug users" as a population?

Someone who hid their illegal activities so well must have been a skilled liar. And skilled liars are often highly successful, but this isn't often argued as a good thing...

I'm not sure whether some drugs have the effect of turning users into skilled liars or not, but that does sound like it would be yet another harmful (though logical) side-effect of prohibition.

Re: What If U.S. Cities Just Stopped Participating in the War on Drugs?

#143

Post by declan » Wed, May 21, 2014, 4:16 PM UTC

Bahamut wrote: post #113

declan wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Religion can and does drive political agendas in the U.S., true, but the question is whether the WoDPUD (war on some politically unpopular drugs) is being driven primarily by religion. I know of no evidence for that proposition, and can offer counterexamples. One would be the Interfaith Drug Policy Initiative, made up of Protestant, Catholic and Jewish clergy, which supports drug law reform: http://en.wikipedia.org/w…

You're correct in that it's not as dominant now, and has been slowly losing its power over time, but its strength is still present, especially due in no small part to the Bible belt. Even alcohol is tightly regulated still in various parts of the country. Congressmen still show a reluctance to reverse already existing laws regulating drugs - it's easier to get them to pass new laws than reverse existing ones unless t…

Absolutely. That is, you're correct that congresscritters (the preferred politically correct gender-neutral term!) "show a reluctance to reverse already existing laws regulating drugs." But that's adequately explained by non-religious theories of political action, including wanting to appear tough on crime and memories of the Willie Horton attack ad.

Re: What If U.S. Cities Just Stopped Participating in the War on Drugs?

#144

Post by glenra » Thu, May 22, 2014, 3:50 AM UTC

Natsu wrote: post #141

neurobro wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in an office that did perform background checks and wouldn't hire ex-convicts. Curiously, the drug addicts who worked there tended to be highly functional and even successful. Crap, our anecdotes paint different pictures. Could it be that neither of our samples is representative of "drug users" as a population?

Someone who hid their illegal activities so well must have been a skilled liar. And skilled liars are often highly successful, but this isn't often argued as a good thing...

Some studies have found that illegal drug users earn more than average and are more productive than average. Though in searching for the relevant studies, the first thing I found was this followup:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1465-7287.1998....

Quote: "Using various measures of current and lifetime drug use and accounting for alcohol-use comorbidity, the authors find predominantly insignificant relationships (both direct and indirect) between drug use and both wages and absenteeism, regardless of gender."

Re: What If U.S. Cities Just Stopped Participating in the War on Drugs?

#145

Post by halfcat » Sun, May 25, 2014, 8:41 PM UTC

msane wrote: post #69

runeks wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, there's nothing about not liking the addicts who hassle people on the street? What does that have to do with the War on Drugs? There is no evidence that it lowers drug use; quite the contrary.

I always take issue with the idea that enforcement does not lower usage, and especially the insinuation that it raises it. Each drug has its own usage dynamics. So if we're talking about say OxyContin or Methamphetamine, I think we can be certain that enforcement suppresses a significant portion of usage. The perfect case in point is Florida, where there are loopholes to circumvent enforcement on OxyContin. Predictab…

>"Predictably, there is a very high OxyContin addiction rate there"

Missing the point. There is a very high addiction rate of alcohol, caffeine, porn, and sugar. Addicts are going to be addicted. Society has not yet collapsed despite these legal addictions running rampant. Closing the oxy loophole would lower oxy use. The same people would move on to different substances. What positive has been accomplished? Some of them would spend decades in jail, despite causing no other harm or threat to society. Think big picture. Are you trying to have a civil society or are you trying to end addiction? The only way to end addiction is the extinction of the human race.