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Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

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Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#141

Post by dchichkov »

paulbaumgart wrote: post #121
Bluestrike2 wrote: post #110

You need to hire an attorney, one who works in business litigation (if you can find someone specializing in minority shareholder disputes, that much the better). Right now. If you're delaying on this point out of some idea of wanting to "try to fix things first" or "not wanting to be the bad guy," you're just shooting yourself in the foot and downing blood thinners to keep the wound from clotting. Working with an att…

That last paragraph is gold, OP. Use it to negotiate a clean exit where you are fairly compensated for your contributions.

The whole post is pure gold.

OP. Just follow it letter-by letter. Make a check-list out of it, if you like. And you probably will be Ok (doesn't necessarily mean that you'll get anything out of it, but it would greatly increase the probability of at least negotiating a clean exit. or at the very least you will know that you've done a good rational move, at least this time around). Do not skip the attorney step. Do not skip the attorney step. (I'm not an attorney myself. I'm just a software developer. And I'm telling you. Do not skip the attorney step).

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#142

Post by alien3d »

A few question of business. Are you a shareholder of the company and have company equity ? Yes - just ignore him. No - just leave the company.

Is is a startup whom promised equity if the company profit /ipo and no pen paper to prove it Yes -leave the company. No - just ignore him.

Most CTO(Chief Technical Officer) and CEO (Chief Execute Officer) are hired by director /co-founder of the company. So nothing he/she will said will effect you(shareholder of the company) at all. If he /she proceed with firing process,said you're ain't director/co-founder.So please do it.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#143

Post by sergiosgc »

Bluestrike2 wrote: post #110

You need to hire an attorney, one who works in business litigation (if you can find someone specializing in minority shareholder disputes, that much the better). Right now. If you're delaying on this point out of some idea of wanting to "try to fix things first" or "not wanting to be the bad guy," you're just shooting yourself in the foot and downing blood thinners to keep the wound from clotting. Working with an att…

I'd go for a shorter version, but: yes, you are right on. Important points:

1. Have legal counsel

2. Deal with the issue now, not later.

I'd get a lawyer and fire the CTO. Small teams require absolute trust, and that is now breached. You'll find out in the process how the CEO aligns. Give your partner a heads up, but don't let yourself be moved from the task of firing the CTO.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#144

Post by zobzu »

Hermel wrote: post #119
Bluestrike2 wrote: post #110

You need to hire an attorney, one who works in business litigation (if you can find someone specializing in minority shareholder disputes, that much the better). Right now. If you're delaying on this point out of some idea of wanting to "try to fix things first" or "not wanting to be the bad guy," you're just shooting yourself in the foot and downing blood thinners to keep the wound from clotting. Working with an att…

First and foremost, involving attorneys costs everyone a lot of time and money. Unless you want exactly that (maybe out of a desire to "punish" them), it's better to just leave.

Hey, I found the CTO ;-)

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#145

Post by vayarajesh »

gtCameron wrote: post #9

The question I would try and answer if I were in your shoes is the following: Does he want me to leave the company or does he want me to stop writing production code for the product? If its the first one, there is likely a personal issue between the two of you that needs to be resolved one way or another. If you think the second option is what he is really trying to communicate, then I would look for other opportunit…

I agree completely.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#146

Post by DigitalSea »

Maybe he is telling you the truth, but you are a founder, he is a CTO. Maybe it is just a simple case if you are currently contributing code to the idea to step back and let this other guy handle the coding aspect for you. Maybe you can better spend your time as a co-founder elsewhere in your company.

Having said that, if he is forcefully advising you to leave, he is overstepping his boundaries and you need to contain that fire now before he starts turning other employees against you. A toxic employee in a company is like a cancer, it will start in one area and if not treated, it will spread throughout every orifice in your body until it kills you.

If it is a simple matter of you're making it hard for the CTO to do his job because you're committing code and continually breaking things, maybe you need to step back and let him do his job. He can't force you out of your own company, but he might have enough collateral (if he is truly instrumental in your company's success) to get other people to listen to him and force them to make a decision. The CTO is either brutally honest, he's an asshole or he's gunning for your spot in the company.

I would be looking at this from all angles. Don't just assume the CTO is acting alone, for all you know the CEO or your business part is instrumental in his push for you to leave. You're not just an employee, you're a co-founder and you have rights and responsibilities. You're acting like the CTO has already one which will be your downfall. Exercise your rights as a co-founder to fix this.

I would seriously fire the CTO. He might have been instrumental in the companies success, but he has overstepped the line. He has gone beyond the point of merely telling someone they're making his job hard, he's asking a co-founder to leave. It's like some manager at Microsoft asking the CEO to step-down, it's just crazy.

Get legal advice ASAP. Explore your options, but without-a-doubt, get legal counsel right away before you do anything else. My first question to your lawyer would be: Can I fire the CTO cleanly without recourse?

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#147

Post by hoodoof »

shazow wrote: post #8
cantlookaway wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. > The rest of my advice assumes the CEO (your co-founder) has quite a bit of confidence in the CTO. This is the case, it is in my interest however to remain in the company because my equity is vested, the sooner I leave the less I will get in return, apart from my time, and opportunity cost I invested all my personal wealth.

If you can come to some agreement with the CEO/CTO, it's possible to accelerate a portion of your vesting for your departure. Or, since you said they want to wait until the company raises funding, you could negotiate some other kind of severance. Either way, if possible, figure out a compromise which feels fair for everybody involved. This doesn't need to be completely one-sided.

For what reason would the OP need to negotiate with the CTO?

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#148

Post by wisty »

You'd make a better CTO than him. I'd rather work for a CTO who listens to good advice than one who is really sharp, but fucks people over.

Obviously, you are fairly technically competent (or he wouldn't need you around, and you wouldn't have gotten the prototype working). You're also a competent leader - you are listening to technical advice.

But let's say you hire a few more good coders. The CTO feels threatened. Is he going to listen to them when they challenge him, and possibly even step aside if one of them would be a better CTO, or is he going to fuck them over the same way he's fucking you over?

He sounds like a toxic political player. You can think "He's a snake, but he's our snake. His political skills will give us an edge", but it rarely works that way.

If you can, get rid of him, promote yourself to COO, and make the other good programmer CTO or lead programmer or something.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#149

Post by tinco »

Bluestrike2 wrote: post #110

You need to hire an attorney, one who works in business litigation (if you can find someone specializing in minority shareholder disputes, that much the better). Right now. If you're delaying on this point out of some idea of wanting to "try to fix things first" or "not wanting to be the bad guy," you're just shooting yourself in the foot and downing blood thinners to keep the wound from clotting. Working with an att…

> There are two possibilities right off the bat: (i) the CEO is involved, which is likely given the difficulty involved in squeezing-out a shareholder + 50% co-founder; (ii) the CTO is working alone, hoping to push you out the door and benefit in some way from the resulting vacuum.

Well aren't you mister negative here. If this guy was just an employee the tone of this thread would be very different. Every CTO knows there's coders that can just drag down the efficiency of the team. Every programmer knows in his bones that some programmers are poisonous to your codebase, even if they get shit done.

So how about a third option: They are just trying to cut out dead weight from the company.

So yes, get an attorney, yes, make sure you get what you deserve. But don't assume your friend (your cofounder is your friend right?) is backstabbing you before you are absolutely certain, no use in getting bitter before the hurt is done. A startup is a business, and businesses need to run efficient to succeed.

Asking you to leave, and asking it to be in three to six months, that's quite different than doing it suddenly when your grandmother dies. To me it sounds like they're doing it as classy as they can.

I'd say, if you really want to keep working with them, step up your game, make sure you're the programmer they need.

In any case, lawyer up, you have risked a lot going into a startup, so you most definitely have rights to that slice of the money pie when it comes.

Re: Ask HN: CTO wants me to leave

#150

Post by hollerith »

I always thought that it would be good to have an agreement with my cofounders that if ever a compromise cannot be reached, a "roll of the dice" will be used to decide the question in contention. (By "roll of the dice", I mean the probability that the course of action favored by investor A prevails is proportional to the amount of stock held by that investor.)

But I've never seen any references to a startup that actually uses such an arrangement. (What I have seen a lot is the notion or principle that the investor or coalition of investors with at least 50% of the outstanding stock decides, which does not seem to me to protect the interests of minority shareholders as well.)

Do any lawyers want to offer a guess as to whether a contract between cofounders (or between cofounders and investors) with such a "roll-the-dice" clause in it would be enforceable in the California courts?

P.S. Also, am I completely crazy or are most of the comment authors here wrong in implying that whether the OP will prevail in court has anything significant to do with how good a programmer he is?

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