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OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

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Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#141

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

vanattab wrote: post #123
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although that situation you outline might seem pretty extreme, spare a thought for those who suffer far worse discrimination in real life, where it actually matters. Cf. the bed and breakfast owner who asks "Are you gay?" and if the answer's "yes", shuts their door on you.

I have never in my life been asked if I was gay before any business transaction.

I was specifically referring to this case [1]. The status has gone back and forth several times on appeal, but it's most definitely an example of horrible bigotry.

[1] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/christian-bb-...

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#144

Post by vacri »

pierlux wrote: post #126
vacri wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that his beliefs in 2008 were echoed by a majority of Californian voters, it's hard to argue that they're a deviation from the norm.

At thin majority and this is a weak argument anyway.

A norm just has to be common, not a majority. Voting for a major political party is a norm, regardless of whether your party wins or loses, for example.

I don't support his views, but to call them as 'not a norm' mischaracterises them and doesn't particularly help in finding tactics against them.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#145

Post by hkphooey »

MatthiasP wrote: post #112
spicyj wrote: post #31

Mozilla released a blog post on Saturday clearly stating: > Mozilla supports equality for all, including marriage equality for LGBT couples. https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/03/29/mozilla-supports-lg... There's no evidence that Brendan Eich will bring any of his political views to the workplace; this continued backlash feels unwarranted.

This political-correctness frenzy is beyond ridiculous. A browser company should not have to give statements about political issues that have absolutely nothing to do with their business. What's next, regular declerations concerning basic income, marijuana legalization and the Crimea?

Well said.

This is mostly faux outrage. Brendan is one man, an easy target to scream and shout at.

Notice how nobody is protesting outside mosques and embassies where under Islam, the penalty for simply being gay, let alone getting married, is DEATH.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#146

Post by dmazin »

eaurouge wrote: post #136
dmazin wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not that Eich's beliefs are a deviation from a norm (whether they are or not is irrelevant). His beliefs are hateful. The reason for this particular message is because it is part of a greater campaign to show Mozilla that users and producers on the internet are not in support of Eich's appointment.

Why do you say his beliefs are hateful? And, is a person's beliefs/opinion constant and permanent or do they change over time? Here's what Elton John had to say in 2008 (his views have since changed); from HuffPo [1]: "We have a civil partnership," he said, talking about he and longtime partner, David Furnish. "What is wrong with Proposition 8 is that they went for marriage. Marriage is going to put a lot of people o…

I say his beliefs are hateful because I believe it is hateful to say that different regulations should be applied to people based on how they were born, or how they choose to behave when that behavior is a personal decision not affecting others.

There are exceptions here and there, such as helmet and seatbelt laws, but I'm really talking about lifestyle choices.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#147

Post by sveme »

This actually made me remove my (dormant, but still) account on okcupid. I am absolutely a proponent of equal rights and I absolutely disagree with Brendan Eich's actions. Still I continue using Firefox and Thunderbird (and Javascript) as Mozilla remains the last really influential supporter of an open web. The efforts of the many Mozilla developers outweigh the hateful beliefs of one Eich.

Why then remove my okcupid account? I feel pushed, I feel that they tried to create a bad conscience, I feel emotionally manipulated. That's not how a business should treat me.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#148

Post by jkrems »

davidgerard wrote: post #37
gocarsno wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then I'd say you either don't know how tragic the situation in Uganda is, or you have no sense of proportion.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Not_as_bad_as "The "not as bad as" argument, or the fallacy of relative privation, is a form of the moral equivalence fallacy that takes note of the existence of things that are worse than what is actually under discussion - for different purposes, as outlined below. It's popular with people who know perfectly well they're doing something wrong; being fully aware that they're doing someth…

Topic is an incorrect statement made in the article. This statement implied that Eich's actions were promoting outlawing homosexual relationships. There are countries where such laws still exist. Mentioning them and noting that there's a difference between facing prison for being in a homosexual relationship (which the article implied was something Eich was trying to achieve) and not being able to marry a same-sex partner is absolutely relevant. That's not a "logical fallacy". Calling it a logical fallacy on the other hand is.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#149

Post by justizin »

eaurouge wrote: post #136
dmazin wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not that Eich's beliefs are a deviation from a norm (whether they are or not is irrelevant). His beliefs are hateful. The reason for this particular message is because it is part of a greater campaign to show Mozilla that users and producers on the internet are not in support of Eich's appointment.

Why do you say his beliefs are hateful? And, is a person's beliefs/opinion constant and permanent or do they change over time? Here's what Elton John had to say in 2008 (his views have since changed); from HuffPo [1]: "We have a civil partnership," he said, talking about he and longtime partner, David Furnish. "What is wrong with Proposition 8 is that they went for marriage. Marriage is going to put a lot of people o…

Elton John is mega-rich and is not a US Citizen, as well as surely having very well paid lawyers, so does not have the concerns that others have. Furthermore, many churches are accepting of LGBTQ folks and will perform marriages, including one in SF where a friend of mine used to be a pastor.

Rights are not about not upsetting people. If noone did anything that upset people, it would also be illegal to marry interracially. A lot of people alive today have a problem with that, and the government said: too fucking bad, kiddo.

Re: OkCupid urges users to abandon Firefox

#150

Post by foolrush »

MatthiasP wrote: post #112
spicyj wrote: post #31

Mozilla released a blog post on Saturday clearly stating: > Mozilla supports equality for all, including marriage equality for LGBT couples. https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2014/03/29/mozilla-supports-lg... There's no evidence that Brendan Eich will bring any of his political views to the workplace; this continued backlash feels unwarranted.

This political-correctness frenzy is beyond ridiculous. A browser company should not have to give statements about political issues that have absolutely nothing to do with their business. What's next, regular declerations concerning basic income, marijuana legalization and the Crimea?

The notion that gender issues can exist outside of technology or culture is ridiculous, and an undercurrent that haunts many HN posts.

Silence, via shaming or suppression by a privileged status quo, perpetuates the prevailing stigmas and only serves to reinforce the very ignorance that birthed the attitudes.

While it might be uncomfortable for a privileged majority, we could all do well to at least be more open to dissenting opinions.

In this case, 8% of OKCupid’s “business” is directly related to the issue, so it seems precisely appropriate.

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