Earlier quoted context omitted.
Agree. To me, Mozilla is much more than a company. It's more like family. It's purpose is to set a high moral ground and place values over anything else. With that in mind appointing someone whose moral standing is questionable, makes this decision hard to accept. I guess it was silly of me to imagine mozilla as something larger than life/more than a run of the mill company.
I'm sorry, but you made a mistake of projecting your own beliefs and value system onto Mozilla. Mozilla is simply a technology organization and their mission is to promote a free and open web. It is not human rights, animal rights, or anything else. If Brendan Eich believes in a free and open web then he is the right person for the job.
Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire
141–150 of 214 posts
Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire
#142Earlier quoted context omitted.
This issue is uncomfortably political for HN, but I feel like I should chime in to say that HN is clearly not split down the middle about support for Eich's political position. I haven't seen a single comment defending it.
I'll happily defend the man's right to hold all sorts of inappropriate and unpopular opinions. Do we want the tech community to be some kind of PC witch hunt, where people who say or do unpopular things will be banned from employment? If that's the case, then that's wrong -- and it hurts the tech community at large for it to be that way. This is a witch hunt. It may be a witch hunt for good reasons, and for a cause I…
I think it's fair to say you're probably in the minority there.
Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire
#143Can't Liberals see that Believers hold themselves to a different set of standards? It is not often personal (though unfortunately for some religious extremists it is). The only hate that is being displayed here is by the anti-religious groups and individuals.
Think of it like this. A girl is invited to a friend's birthday party. She does not attend because her father forbids her to go and won't driver her there either. She tries to explain it to her friend, but here friend hates her now because can not come. Is this fair to the girl?
Some of you will say that this case is more like the girl paying someone to disrupt the party. Again, if the girl's father was responsible as God is for believer's convictions, then should the girl be hated anyway? I suppose if you think that the girl's father only existed in her own mind (was a phantasy) then you would think this.
Still does not seem fair? Well what if it came out later that the girl planning the party was going to do something harmful to the guests. By disrupting the party, the girl who looked cruel now in hindsight looks like a hero. This knowledge of the devious girl's plan is akin to the belief and knowledge that religious people have in God.
God cannot be proven or dis-proven via science. So how do atheists know they are really correct? how do religious people? At least the religious people have a basis that does not rely on unexplained things. A God and a creation are certainly a more plausible and simple explanation to our existence then any offered by atheists.
So who are the real bigots here? From each side's perspective, it is the other. My hope is that each side will respect (not agree with) the others reasons and not show hatred toward the other. If a gay person donates to a fund pushing gay marriage, don't show hate toward them, if a religious person donates to the opposition, the same applies. This is almost sportsmanship in a way. Play hard against the opposition, but when they fall down (when they are in need of help), show them kindness, help them up and continue the competition.
Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
What type of person you choose to head your operations obviously reflects your ideals. It really doesn't matter if Mr. Eich donated 1000 dollars or a million dollars, he opposes basic human rights. And apparently Mozilla is fine with that.
This is silly, almost fascist. What next? If a person doesn't donate to a campaign supporting gay marriage, does that mean the person is a bigot and homophobic?
Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire
#145I understand why people could get offended about this. But as I understand it most who oppose this have a religious reason to do so. Now religion is as deeply person and important to a person as is the right to marry. So where do we draw the line on what we allow others to think, believe or support? As a for instance my Aunty is vegan and is offended that I or any one else would ever eat meat. And I know eating meat…
Just because your religion says so doesn't mean I have to follow it. I'm not trying to make you change your religion - you can live the way you want - but that is not the way I want. The appropriate middle ground is just that. You can be as religious as you want, tell me that I live in sin etc., but you don't get to force me to not be with the person I love. Similarly, I don't get to force legislation to make everyon…
For instance there has been talk here on the freedom of association. I support that to a degree. But not to the degree where I would want society to allow a shop keeper to only serve straight white males. But I would want a society that allows a church/temple/(name your religious building) to discriminate on not marrying people from outside of that faith.
This article got me thinking why have I drawn these lines. And wanted to open a discussion on how we decide when is it okay to limit someone's freedoms. I think the majority are saying lets try to prevent this guys ability to work for this company. Because he wants to limit who can marry who. But why is one okay and not the other? I'm not trying to take either side I'm just trying to ask why.
Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire
#146Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why shouldn't you? I dunno: some basic concept of pluralism?
Pluralism does not equal correct. Slavery, women's suffrage, Japanese internment, separate-but-equal ... the list goes on and on.
Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire
#147I've got friends that live an alternative life-style, and I can discuss this sanely with them. We don't have to agree on everything to be friends and we certainly don't agree on whether their lifestyle can be aligned with my religious beliefs, but we also don't make it the focal point of our relationship.
I've never said I was against the various domestic partnership rules that allow equal insurance, tax breaks and other benefits to committed partners. I'm simply not willing to use the word marriage to describe the relationship.
So when I see all the commotion about a measly $1000 donation to support proposition 8 in CA, I wonder why anyone is actually wasting their time on a protest. I don't think that Eich is filled with hatred ... I suspect he barely thinks about it at all. But why is it okay when the hatred is directed at him? Why are people so consumed by the issue that they give up vast amounts of their time and energy?
I can live without hating ... can you?
P.S. I'll admit that there are probably things and people in the world that are worth hating.
Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire
#148Earlier quoted context omitted.
Being gay isn't a belief.
If it's not a choice or a belief, is it genetic?
[1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_animals_displaying_homo...
Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire
#149If this were any other company I don't think this would turn any heads. However, much of Mozilla's ethos and community support is built on ethical rather than capitalistic foundations. It's hard to reconcile thoughts on a company that seems to so value freedom in some areas but not in others [1]. [1] Inferring what Mozilla values based on the opinions of its CEO is not particularly fair , but then again I'm not sure…
No, I think for any major or known company this would turn a lot of heads. Any CEO that has ties to homophobia or whatever you want to call it is going to get talked about. But, I will say given the kind of culture Mozilla seems to support, it is an odd choice.
http://consumerist.com/2010/08/05/target-ceo-explains-suppor...
Re: Gay Firefox developers boycott Mozilla to protest CEO hire
#150Earlier quoted context omitted.
What type of person you choose to head your operations obviously reflects your ideals. It really doesn't matter if Mr. Eich donated 1000 dollars or a million dollars, he opposes basic human rights. And apparently Mozilla is fine with that.
This is silly, almost fascist. What next? If a person doesn't donate to a campaign supporting gay marriage, does that mean the person is a bigot and homophobic?
There's a pattern here. This issue is one that's important to Eich. I will certainly judge him on that and judge those who empower him and there's absolutely nothing fascist about exercising my freedom of association.