Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey • Hacker News Board

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#141

Post by Jgrubb » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 8:34 PM UTC

bfe wrote: post #38

Just last week, Elon argued against a different legal monopoly, for national security launch services by the Boeing-Lockheed joint venture. [1] It's amazing how much building a new company in a supposedly free market requires arguing against politicians who claim to champion free market economics, but who actually use government to give cushy monopolies to incumbents with big lobbying budgets. "Crony capitalism" isn'…

Why isn't Crony Capitalism an accurate term for this? Seems like exactly the term to me.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#142

Post by bfe » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 8:36 PM UTC

Jgrubb wrote: post #141

bfe wrote: post #38

Just last week, Elon argued against a different legal monopoly, for national security launch services by the Boeing-Lockheed joint venture. [1] It's amazing how much building a new company in a supposedly free market requires arguing against politicians who claim to champion free market economics, but who actually use government to give cushy monopolies to incumbents with big lobbying budgets. "Crony capitalism" isn'…

Why isn't Crony Capitalism an accurate term for this? Seems like exactly the term to me.

Because it's all crony, no capitalism.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#143

Post by stcredzero » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 8:37 PM UTC

flyinglizard wrote: post #96

Look beyond this local issue, and you'll see how we're in the middle of a huge power shift. It used to be that businessmen like Musk had to lobby, pressure and bribe, now they just need to appeal directly to the public, completely bypassing the political system in the process. It hasn't started with Musk, of course. The most obvious display of such power was the website blackout that led to the SOPA repeal. That show…

The public no longer believes politicians, but they all believe Zuckerberg, Page and Musk.

I suspect they really only have a portion of the public -- including Musk.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#144

Post by digikata » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 8:37 PM UTC

kyrra wrote: post #124

digikata wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a dealership middle man is providing so much value to the customer, why then does it need any legislative protection? Real estate agents are a bad example, as that industry is also dug in with legislative protections against more competitive business models.

NPR said it was due to Ford and other auto makers back in the 1920-1930 bullying dealerships. Ford threatened to cancel their business contracts with dealership if the dealerships didn't buy cars that they knew they couldn't sell. During that time, Ford kept their lines running at full capacity even though demand didn't warrant it. The states decided to step in and protect their local dealerships from the megacorp th…

I understand the history, but in today's commerce environment the middle-men industries should provide their own value without legislative props, or they had better have a unique line of reasoning that is relevant to the modern world.

If you have a building or lot where people have to go to physically see the car (as Tesla does provide BTW), then it's difficult to imagine how sales tax would be avoided.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#145

Post by robbles » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 8:38 PM UTC

stcredzero wrote: post #121

robbles wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the idea in principle, that electric cars are a net positive for reliability and minimizing service costs. However, when you talk nostalgically about the good old days of cars being "mechanical devices one could understand and tinker with", and then turn around and talk about the new generation of electric cars being somehow equivalent, it seems a little logically inconsistent to me. Make no mistake, a T…

Tesla is just as much of a "hunk of plastic" That is exactly my point. Did you actually read the whole comment you are responding to?

I did read it - it appears I misunderstood you though, sorry! For some reason, I interpreted the last two paragraphs as saying they were similar.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#146

Post by stcredzero » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 8:39 PM UTC

bfe wrote: post #142

Jgrubb wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why isn't Crony Capitalism an accurate term for this? Seems like exactly the term to me.

Because it's all crony, no capitalism.

it's all crony, no capitalism

crony capitalism == crony "capitalism"

Americans are just lousy with punctuation.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#147

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 8:39 PM UTC

Jgrubb wrote: post #141

bfe wrote: post #38

Just last week, Elon argued against a different legal monopoly, for national security launch services by the Boeing-Lockheed joint venture. [1] It's amazing how much building a new company in a supposedly free market requires arguing against politicians who claim to champion free market economics, but who actually use government to give cushy monopolies to incumbents with big lobbying budgets. "Crony capitalism" isn'…

Why isn't Crony Capitalism an accurate term for this? Seems like exactly the term to me.

"crony capitalism" is just regular capitalism.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#148

Post by GenerocUsername » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 8:40 PM UTC

npizzolato wrote: post #74

smackfu wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The easier it is to update software, the less important that it is bug-free.

Until that bug causes a car to drive unexpectedly into a wall in the interim time until you've sent out a patch. The importance of being bug-free is much more driven by the potential damage caused by a bug than how quickly you can update the software.

Fear monger. What if what if what if... I'm not saying it couldn't happen, I'm just saying that possible new issues are no reason to persist the old issues

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#149

Post by skore » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 8:40 PM UTC

mfrommil wrote: post #72

skore wrote: post #10

> An even bigger conflict of interest with auto dealers is that they make most of their profit from service, but electric cars require much less service than gasoline cars. There are no oil, spark plug or fuel filter changes, no tune-ups and no smog checks needed for an electric car. Also, all Tesla Model S vehicles are capable of over-the-air updates to upgrade the software, just like your phone or computer, so no v…

Don't even have to call it a "salespitch". A good product will sell itself. And it's quite clear a Tesla is a good product.

Point taken, but then again - it really is a salespitch in what is supposed to be a statement on a political issue.

Re: Elon Musk: To the People of New Jersey

#150

Post by hrayr » Fri, Mar 14, 2014, 8:40 PM UTC

rst wrote: post #108

peeters wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does the distribution mechanism in itself affect the quality? It's just a way of getting new software on the car. You can have the exact same standards of quality for an update installed over the air as one installed at a service centre.

For one thing, an OTA update mechanism is obviously more subject to third-party spoofing than an update delivered by physical ethernet from the dealership. (BTW, do Teslas apply OTA updates while the car is underway, or store them up for application when parked? If the former, then applying even a correct update to a car in motion could have all sorts of nasty consequences if it resulted in a sudden change to, say, r…

"do Teslas apply OTA updates while the car is underway"

Even your cellphone doesn't update when it's 'under way', what makes you wonder a moving automobile will? If you hazard a guess as to how OTA's are applied to automobiles, I would guess it'll be in Parked, plugged in, and prompted to update by pressing an "Accept & Update" button.