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Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

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Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#141

Post by ch »

bane wrote: post #78

So let's do some back of the envelope math Colorado: 5,268,367 people (2013 est.) Pot Tax Revenues: $98 million That's $18.60 per person. Assuming demand is constant across the U.S. (which is probably not true, but let's go with it) U.S. population: 317,580,230 (current est.) That's $5,906,992,278 in tax revenues for the entire country. 2014 is expected to be even bigger. So what could the nation do with $6 billion+…

You know what will happen when the prison industry revenue and budgets get slashed and x number of prison employees are displaced? We will subsidize the industry. I can't substantiate that claim, but it just seems like the way it will go. Still I'd be for any movement which keeps substance a users out of prison if substance abuse was the only 'crime' that put them in prison in the first place.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#142

Post by yardie »

glesica wrote: post #19
chimeracoder wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vice taxes and revenue streams to be kept alive for the district? In Colorado, the first $40M in taxes each year are required to be allocated towards school funding, per the state constitution. The not-so-subtle goal is to make it politically painful to repeal this amendment, as any attempt to criminalize marijuana again can be spun as an attempt to cut funding for education. > That's going to be such a kick-in-the…

I think the concern was that we're just replacing illegal cartels with legal cartels. The tax revenue thing is also kind of misleading. First, that number is apparently fixed (based on your wording, I'm not familiar personally), but the there is, presumably, no upper-bound on the actual revenues, so as revenues increase, a smaller percentage goes to education. Second, vice taxes tend to be regressive, the poor pay a…

> I think the concern was that we're just replacing illegal cartels with legal cartels.

Just like how legalised gambling just made it legal for the mobs to run casinos?

Except that's not what happened. Investors came in, bringing real managers, real security, and real regulation. They turned the seedy, Las Vegas strip into Disneyland. And those old mob run casinos, you'll find their demolition videos on youtube.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#143

Post by nirnira »

Fomite wrote: post #139
nirnira wrote: post #131

I can't believe America sometime. Americans are supposed to cherish freedom. Yet they cravenly surrender and prostitute their freedoms at the slightest sign of moral outrage and censure from their fellow citizens. What free-minded person would support 25% taxation on a product which, if used correctly, has no negative effect on anyone other than that person (i.e. incurs no negative externalities) - and therefore no c…

Two thoughts: 1. Your objection applies to all sales tax. 2. Why do I think you would be equally outraged for staggeringly high laws on pollution-generating industries or firearms, which do have negative effects on other people.

1. That might be true. I haven't thought about that in any detail.

2. I don't know why either, because I wouldn't.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#144

Post by nirnira »

paulhauggis wrote: post #135
nirnira wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? Legalising drugs destroys every single element which supports violent paralegel cartels. 1) It eliminates legal risk, so drug production becomes instantly a much more lucrative activity, enticing more people to do it. 2) Profits are reduced as the market becomes more competitive. 3) The cartels are unable to pursue their "normal" extralegal means of suppressing competition, because the parties they might see…

Drug legalization isn't the problem, corruption is. When the cartels can buy any officer and government official in Mexico, legalization will only give them more power. "4) In a competitive, legal market, the successful firms will be the ones which offer the best product - the firms with the best drugs, the highest standards of quality and ethics, the nicest stores, and the best customer service. Why buy from dodgy d…

Walmart and Amazon are hyper-efficient organisations that are able to deliver extremely low-cost goods. Hence their popularity. If ultra low prices are what consumers want, then what's to stop someone attempting to sell marijuana that cheaply? Again, not really a vicious cartel's forte. A cartel's forte is violently excluding competitors to maintain high profit margins in a market hidden from normal legislative balances.

As long as all the growing takes place within the legalisation territory (i.e. nothing is sourced from illicit operations in foreign nations) then I see no reason why violent organisations would dominate legal trade of psychoactive substances.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#145

Post by cdoxsey »

just2n wrote: post #44

I wonder if there is any (increased) consideration for stronger laws against smoking in public areas. Particularly on high traffic sidewalks. Cigarette smoke is bad enough (and should also be banned in such areas), but Marijuana smoke is far more pungent. It's bad enough we have to deal with exhaust from cars that are clearly illegal (emissions wise), why is it OK to spray toxic fumes all over a sidewalk with a smell…

Smoking Marijuana in public is already illegal in Colorado. No one bothers to enforce it in Boulder... but then again they never did before it was legal either.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#146

Post by cdoxsey »

rch wrote: post #72
kristofferR wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to CNN: $40 million to public school construction $86 million for drug prevension, treatment $12,4 million on public health $3 million for law enforcement and public safety $2 million for marijuana industry oversight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eT6YYkFK4e0&t=2m0s

Everything other than the education component seems inherently wasteful to me. Is there a way to see that these funds are reallocated going forward? Edit: public health could be alright, but there's no way to tell at this level of specification. It would be great to see some improvement in mental health services, for instance.

Education spending is wasteful too.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#147

Post by cdoxsey »

thedufer wrote: post #128
chc wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't conclusively proven yet, but there is some evidence that marijuana use is correlated with less drinking. It isn't purely hypothetical, and in fact it's an argument I've heard from some legalization advocates in California. I'm not sure where they came up with the "marijuana causes drinking" scenario, though. I've never heard of such a thing.

> I'm not sure where they came up with the "marijuana causes drinking" scenario, though. The link between alcohol and marijuana use is very complicated, to say the least. For example, a decrease in price of marijuana leads to (obviously) more marijuana use, but (less obviously) fewer DUI-related deaths. It has also been found to be more directly linked to lower alcohol consumption. Thus, you'd want to call them subst…

Marijuana also leads to DUIs.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#148

Post by snarfy »

gopalv wrote: post #2

Ugh, is this going to look like Big Tobacco in 50 years? Vice taxes and revenue streams to be kept alive for the district? That's going to be such a kick-in-the-backside for everyone who just wanted to decriminalize it & stop putting people away for years.

It won't work for pot like it does tobacco. If they tax it too high people will just grow it at home, illegal or not. This doesn't work for tobacco, which would require a small field to grow your own.

Re: Colorado Pot Tax Proving More Lucrative Than Expected

#150

Post by sanoli »

Fomite wrote: post #138
dinkumthinkum wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No I don't think that works. Many people buy lottery tickets and really think they are going to win. Movie tickets to entice people with false hopes of riches. They also don't involve gambling addiction.

Buying a lottery ticket is rational if the cost of the ticket is offset by the relative increase in your pleasure that comes from dreaming of winning. For example, if you gain >$price of a Powerball ticket worth's of entertainment from musing about how you'd spend the prize, it's a rational purchase. On the other hand, buying two tickets isn't rational. You get no extra dreaming, and your expectation of winning hasn'…

Not really. If you buy 10 tickets, you're buying an extra dose of thrill because you think "I bought ten, I got a better chance of winning".
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