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Introducing Bing Code Search for C#

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Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#

#141

Post by jmspring »

magic_haze wrote: post #15
jmspring wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The dev tools are good, though I think some of the documentation on msdn needs a lot of cleanup/improvement. It is not uncommon to get routed to older API versions or different languages. That said, it is getting better over time. This tool definitely helps with C#. One thing I like about Apple developer docs (on developer.apple.com) that MSDN doesn't have (at least didn't last time I looked) is the ability to get a…

You need to click on the "Export" button, at the top right corner of the page: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/export/help/?returnU...

I've seen that, a page at a time.

If I do the following google search "developer.apple.com keychain", it gives me a web browsable version with a pdf link in the upper right. If I click the PDF link, I get the content for "every page" which means, in this case, the "keychain services programming guide".

I have yet to be able to do the same under msdn.

Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#

#142

Post by gisenberg »

codelap wrote: post #121
gisenberg wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where you pulled SharePoint and SQL Server from, and running the TFS client is a far cry from running the TFS server. That said, my experiences with Visual Studio only serve to underscore the point that my peers would prefer to avoid running a Windows VM altogether if there are open-source alternatives that are good enough.

From your comment, you said TFS. TFS is the server, which include SqlServer, Sharepoint, an OLAP cube, and the TFS server components. The TFS client extension, (which is not TFS) has been baked in for the last 2 versions. So I assume you're using VS 2010, and that is a much different beast. It has a lot more issues, but it's a much improved IDE. As far as virtualization, why are you working in a virtual environment?…

I was referring to Team Explorer which, as of VS2013, doesn't appear to be included out-of-box. Apologies for the confusion.

Virtualization is kind of a red herring here, because as mentioned before, this happens on an array of workstation-level hardware (quad-core Xeon/i7, 16-32GB configurations, SSD).

The point is that virtualization makes these already-painful existing issues much more pronounced, such that my peers actively want to avoid spinning up a Windows VM for a project. These experiences, whether agreed with or not, were largely responsible for the immediate revulsion my team felt to Windows-based solutions. I can't begin to explain how excited people were at the prospect of not having to use Visual Studio anymore when ServiceStack rolled out at my prior company.

My use case for virtualization is mobile development spanning iOS, Android, Windows 8 and Azure-backed services. The last few companies I've been on-site at outfit their employees with high-end MacBooks, with developers occasionally using virtualized Windows under protest.

Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#

#143

Post by us0r »

blibble wrote: post #38
jongalloway2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

s/10/20 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Microsoft#Hist...

don't forget this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_Microsoft_compet...

don't forget to link to Google, Apple and EVERY other Fortune 500 company doing the same shit, different pile.

Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#

#144

Post by pasbesoin »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #138

Science fiction becomes reality: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Deepness_in_the_Sky > The Qeng Ho's computer and timekeeping systems feature the advent of "programmer archaeologists":[2] the Qeng Ho are packrats of computer programs and systems, retaining them over millennia, even as far back to the era of Unix programs (as implied by one passage mentioning that the fundamental time-keeping system is the Unix epoch:…

That book, and its partner, "A Fire Upon the Deep", are very much worth the read. Many other things in there, that we already see coming true: Computational and monitoring "dust"; biomagnetic manipulation of perception and personality; etc...

And Vinge is an excellent storyteller.

There's actually a third title in the series out, now, that I also quite enjoyed. But the first two, and especially "A Deepness in the Sky", really got my attention.

Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#

#145

Post by gisenberg »

alkonaut wrote: post #115
gisenberg wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that be nice? I'd be inclined to agree with you if it were just me or one machine, but these are characteristics that I'd use to describe Visual Studio across a number of machines, projects and teams over several years.

Use a fast machine. Do not develop in a VM. Do not use a mechanical hard drive. Have at least 8GB of ram. Absolutely do not have any kind of on-access antivirus scan enabled for project output/intermediate dirs or GAC. I find a 100project C# solution (200mb deploy) to be perfectly snappy when using & fast to build. There are and have been zillions of annoyances with VS but perf hasn't been one since I set my machine…

This is great dogma for people that control their work environment, but keep in mind that not everyone has that luxury. Hardware upgrade cycles and/or upgrade budgets can prevent people from working on the hardware they'd like, group policy can prevent scoping down AV settings, job role may require frequently hopping between OSX/Windows, etc.

Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#

#146

Post by kevingadd »

kevinskii wrote: post #76
benologist wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not very true that you're locked into anything anymore. See Mono, Xamarin, Sharpdevelop, etc.

We stopped using Mono after a few months. With .NET's Task Parallel Libraries we saw an enormous performance difference between Mono/Redhat vs. .NET/Windows, with the latter often running many times faster. Tuning the GC and heap size didn't make much of a difference. .NET seems to be well worth the cost of running Windows, but the consequent platform and vendor lock-in is still a concern for us.

Mono's parallel implementation is really bad, yes. I've had similar problems with it (despite the fact that the Mono SGen GC is usually pretty decent at keeping up)

Maybe you should contribute a better one. ;)

Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#

#147

Post by kevingadd »

Pacabel wrote: post #95
benologist wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not very true that you're locked into anything anymore. See Mono, Xamarin, Sharpdevelop, etc.

What you're saying is only true for perhaps the simplest "Hello World!"-level apps. Much beyond that and it just isn't trivial to use those alternative tools effectively, even when you're specifically targeting them and not actual .NET.

I've deployed fairly large .NET applications to Mono with only trivial modifications. They behaved equivalently, even if Mono's garbage collector isn't as good.

Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#

#148

Post by kevingadd »

guiomie wrote: post #126

Everytime something C# is posted it's all about MS and why some like or dislike C# or .Net, rarely are the comments related to the actual article. Personally, I think this new feature is cool, but I've come to realise that my visual studio freezes way more then initially, I think this might be because I've got a few addons installed (ex: Demon, Resharper ...etc) I wonder what will be the overall performance impact of…

ReSharper is an infamous hog. It makes VS freeze up, devours memory, and devours extra CPU cycles with background threads.

It is at least a really useful add-on...

Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#

#149

Post by matthewking »

rkuykendall-com wrote: post #49
maresca wrote: post #5

C# and .NET get a bad rap for being created by Microsoft. But one thing that can't be ignored is how polished their development tools are. I absolutely love coding in Visual Studio.

Personally, it's because Microsoft development locks you in, and costs a lot of money. The OS costs money, the server OS costs money, the database costs money, the IDE costs money, everything costs money, and you have to use it, for the life of your app. To many young developers these days, and IIS server is the thing your company keeps in the closet to some sluggish legacy monstrosity which has been replaced for yea…

As far as IDE goes, Visual Studio Express is free and very capable: http://www.visualstudio.com/en-US/products/visual-studio-exp...

Re: Introducing Bing Code Search for C#

#150

Post by Moto7451 »

michaelmior wrote: post #91
SDGT wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VS lock in is a very real thing. At my current employer, there is no way they could ever come off of VS and .Net because of the lack of polyglots in the office. There is one of us that does Java, 3 that do PHP (only in the last 6 months), and 6 that are set up for .Net MVC. Management just can't spare the costs to retrain, and none of these guys go home and code on non MS platforms.

What about Mono? I have no idea how practical this is for real code bases, but I've used it successfully on several smaller projects.

I have Mono projects in production. Xamarin Studio is pretty nice these days. I don't have a lot of performance sensitive .Net code so I don't notice any real difference between Microsoft's and Xamarin's implementations.

One problem I'm running into at the moment is I'm trying to port a vendor's reference SOAP Service over to Mono/Linux and their provided secret sauce DLL is blowing up when calling their objects' constructors. I'm yet to pin it on Linux or Mono. Here's hoping the vendor is Mono friendly and willing to debug it. If not we're going to have one oddball Windows server in a sea of Ubuntu EC2 instances.

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