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Microsoft, Past and Future

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Re: Microsoft, Past and Future

#141

Post by sliverstorm »

JohnBooty wrote: post #137
Guvante wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why you are saying the Xbox was never dominant. I don't think anyone could see the 360 doing any better. .NET is doing extremely well given the alternatives. Azure is picking up speed fairly well too.

They sold a lot of XBox 360s, but that division has never made much money, which is the point. References: http://www.microsoft.com/Investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earn... (Of course, check out "gross margin" and not "revenue.")

They are using the Xbox as a gateway to the living room to launch other businesses, rather than trying to make lots of profit on the Xbox directly.

Re: Microsoft, Past and Future

#142

Post by sliverstorm »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #84
klipt wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What problem do Surface tablets solve? Art problems, apparently. Gabe of Penny Arcade seemed pretty positive about the Surface Pro: http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/02/22/the-ms-surface-pro

He gave up on Windows phone after a year though: http://www.penny-arcade.com/2014/01/22/so-many-games1 "I made the switch back to an iphone recently after having a Windows phone for about a year. I really liked the OS but I had nothing but trouble with the hardware. I went through three different handsets and all of them ended up failing on me. Eventually I gave up and just bought an iPhone 5c. I have to say that aft…

I really liked the OS but I had nothing but trouble with the [phone] hardware

This tells us what, exactly, about the Surface Pro?

Re: Microsoft, Past and Future

#143

Post by programminggeek »

beloch wrote: post #28

What I find surprising is that, in the process of writing a historical review on Microsoft, anyone would ignore the fact that MS has repeatedly identified areas of profit, moved in, failed spectacularly, iterated aggressively, and ultimately become dominant, at least for a time. e.g. What killed Netscape? Microsoft's surface tablets are signs of big things to come. They're currently too expensive for what they are, b…

If you think the Surface tablets are overpriced, then you don't understand why Apple makes so much money when all the other computer companies are failing - profit. Without profit, it's hard to do interesting things.

The Xbox is quite successful, but it's a lot of work to make not a lot of money. Why? The razors and blades concept doesn't work so well as making a 30% margin on a product people really, really want to buy.

Re: Microsoft, Past and Future

#144

Post by JohnBooty »

codeulike wrote: post #70
sillysaurus2 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which problems do Surface tablets solve? For example, iPhone completely changed my life overnight, mostly due to its navigation features and ability to look up phone numbers. I think Surface will only be dominant if it solves a problem for people. So, which problem does it solve, and why is it useful for people?

Contractor problems. I have a second hand Surface Pro. Its much lighter than a laptop, but more powerful than the laptop I had before. It runs Visual Studio, Eclipse and all the other tools I need very well. When I'm at a client site or at home I can use the USB port to dock into monitor, keyboard and ethernet. When I'm in meetings I make notes with the pen. When I'm in between on the train I can use it in tablet mod…

I've done a bit of development on a 7" tablet and it's kind of painful, even if you're using "just" a text editor (or an IDE like Eclipse with most of the chrome hidden).

At some point you start hitting some physical limits of the human body. At 7" or 8" you can't have a full-size physical keyboard and there are only so many lines of code you can fit onto the screen, and so forth.

Personally (and I do mean this is personal preference and not the One Right Solution For Everybody) carrying around a 3-5lb notebook isn't a big deal because I'm already going to be carrying pen, paper, a few medications, and a charger or two. Even if my main computing device weighed zero pounds I'd still be carrying a small bag.

Re: Microsoft, Past and Future

#145

Post by Spooky23 »

beloch wrote: post #28

What I find surprising is that, in the process of writing a historical review on Microsoft, anyone would ignore the fact that MS has repeatedly identified areas of profit, moved in, failed spectacularly, iterated aggressively, and ultimately become dominant, at least for a time. e.g. What killed Netscape? Microsoft's surface tablets are signs of big things to come. They're currently too expensive for what they are, b…

The problem with that is that they cannot make Win32 a legacy product.

They tried to do so because you can argue that in the enterprise, iPad can deliver a better Windows experience via VDI than the garbage PCs that dominate the market.

Once I'm delivering a quality Windows experience to my users by turning the client device into a TV, the next step is to further simplify. That expense app? I can use VDI to deliver some awful Enterprise Software via IE9.... or buy a solution with an iOS app! Something like 40% of enterprise users are using a defined set of The other issue is the channel. If they get real about hardware, they are screwing Dell, HP, Lenovo. That's a symbiotic relationship that generates alot of MSFT business.

Re: Microsoft, Past and Future

#146

Post by JohnBooty »

sliverstorm wrote: post #141
JohnBooty wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They sold a lot of XBox 360s, but that division has never made much money, which is the point. References: http://www.microsoft.com/Investor/EarningsAndFinancials/Earn... (Of course, check out "gross margin" and not "revenue.")

They are using the Xbox as a gateway to the living room to launch other businesses, rather than trying to make lots of profit on the Xbox directly.

I think they'd like that to be the case, but it hasn't worked yet in that division's decade-plus existence.

Unless we're going to say that the XBox is helping them sell SQL Server and Office licenses over in the other divisions.

Re: Microsoft, Past and Future

#147

Post by JohnBooty »

codeulike wrote: post #67

I think the Windows 8 gamble could still pay off. We're starting to see 8" tablets that run full Windows. Give it 12 months and the 8" form factor will be powerful enough to cover a lot of enterprise needs. 8" tablet + docking station is a very compelling way to get work done.

As mundane as it sounds, "enterprise" needs often involve opening a bunch of spreadsheets every day, and those are pretty painful on a 7" or 8" screen.

Re: Microsoft, Past and Future

#148

Post by shmerl »

beloch wrote: post #28

What I find surprising is that, in the process of writing a historical review on Microsoft, anyone would ignore the fact that MS has repeatedly identified areas of profit, moved in, failed spectacularly, iterated aggressively, and ultimately become dominant, at least for a time. e.g. What killed Netscape? Microsoft's surface tablets are signs of big things to come. They're currently too expensive for what they are, b…

Netscape story? MS because dominant in browsers (for a while) because of the nasty lock-ins, not because of any positive iterating. Their own slowness became their downfall - IE didn't iterate for a long time, and when they realized that competition is way ahead it was too late for them.

MS mentality barely changed. Lock-in remains their primary strategy in many areas (it's well described here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Microsoft#Vendor_...).

In today's world though it's only backfiring at them, because they have no domination as in the past.

Re: Microsoft, Past and Future

#149

Post by sliverstorm »

JohnBooty wrote: post #146
sliverstorm wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are using the Xbox as a gateway to the living room to launch other businesses, rather than trying to make lots of profit on the Xbox directly.

I think they'd like that to be the case, but it hasn't worked yet in that division's decade-plus existence. Unless we're going to say that the XBox is helping them sell SQL Server and Office licenses over in the other divisions.

It's a long play. Xbox got them in to the fray. Xbox 360 got them to the front of the pack. Xbox One is probably where the plan is supposed to come together.

Re: Microsoft, Past and Future

#150

Post by amaks »

shmerl wrote: post #148
beloch wrote: post #28

What I find surprising is that, in the process of writing a historical review on Microsoft, anyone would ignore the fact that MS has repeatedly identified areas of profit, moved in, failed spectacularly, iterated aggressively, and ultimately become dominant, at least for a time. e.g. What killed Netscape? Microsoft's surface tablets are signs of big things to come. They're currently too expensive for what they are, b…

Netscape story? MS because dominant in browsers (for a while) because of the nasty lock-ins, not because of any positive iterating. Their own slowness became their downfall - IE didn't iterate for a long time, and when they realized that competition is way ahead it was too late for them. MS mentality barely changed. Lock-in remains their primary strategy in many areas (it's well described here: https://en.wikipedia.o…

Exactly. That's why I believe nothing will change in Microsoft with the new CEO, open sourcing of ASP.NET and other moves. It's simply not in their DNA to change and become fast followers. Lock-ins, closed silos - that's Microsoft areas of domination ever since.
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