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The Only Interview Question That Matters

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Re: The Only Interview Question That Matters

#141
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, asking questions in a face-to-face interview is not the best way to figure out if a person is going to do what you want them to. It is not a very effective way of doing that at all. To be meaningful at all, it requires an interviewer with many of the same skills as a psychologist, and a candidate who can represent themselves effectively in an extraordinarily hostile situation. Even if you have both, you're still…

How long does a work-sample test take? I'm typically hiring people to work on on-going projects over a period of months or years; the fact that candidate A does better on a 2-hour or 2-day task than candidate B may not give me that much information about things like how effective they will be at sharing their own knowledge with the rest of the team (or taking guidance from more senior members of the team), developing…

In our case? Call it ~6 hours, over the course of several (potentially discontiguous) days, offsite and at the candidate's leisure.

Work sample testing has been extremely powerful for us. In particular: it has enabled us to screen candidates for aptitude instead of experience, and the result has been a series of hires with no prior experience in our (very specialized) field who have completely blown us the fuck away, like the former line-of-biz insurance company .NET guy who, a month or so in, looked at Rails for the first time and found a serious security hole (which now has a CVE), or the other line-of-biz .NET guy who now runs our crypto review board and co-wrote our crypto challenges, or the math major we hired out of college who ripped through the MSP430 CTF in a couple days (and also has a Rails CVE).

We picked up a guy who had done a couple months of Android development after college, and then moved to what I think (from his resume) was a devops job --- I never asked him in the whole course of our hiring process what that job was about, so I don't know. Six months later, he implemented a CRI elliptic curve DSA exploit that involved BKZ lattice reduction and an FFT filter step. The lattice reduction steps on that attack took something like SIX HOURS to run, and when they finished, you still had to get the FFT step working to figure out if you got the BKZ step right.† Months later and I'm blown away just thinking about how he could have gotten that working. In case you're wondering, he kicks ass on the more boring parts of our work too.

Some other things to know about that guy:

* No prior crypto experience

* No prior software security experience

* Less than 2.5 years dev experience across both jobs

* From flyover country

* Physically uncomfortable during the interview (something noted by interviewers on his feedback)

How compelling do you think his "greatest achievement so far" story would have been? We weren't dumb enough to ask, so we'll have to guess.

Before we did work-sample testing, overcommunication about hiring process, demoted the importance of phone screens, and standardized face-to-face testing, we never would have hired these people. Any process that filters outs Seans, Alexes, Peters, and Ryans over things like "passion" or "what is your greatest achievement" is a stupid fucking process. But there it is, enshrined as the default process for our whole industry. And here's a thread full of people arguing on its behalf.

Yes, I think someone is going to make a lot of money correcting that market inefficiency.

If you're wondering, number of other people on our team who could have helped him debug lattice reduction C++ code: zero.

Re: The Only Interview Question That Matters

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If a candidate is effective and competent, why does it matter if they're passionate?

Because the kid in the basement down the street you're competing with -- the one you don't even know exists until it's way too late -- is effective, competent, and passionate.

That response also works if you replace "passionate" with "can moonwalk".

Re: The Only Interview Question That Matters

#144
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There might be nothing in the industry that gets under my skin quite as effectively as engineers making hiring decisions based on the perceived "passion" of candidates. "Passion" doesn't matter. What matters in a job is effectiveness and competence. Effectiveness gets things done. Competence ensures that what's getting done isn't going to backfire and create more work down the line. In our common usage, "passion" des…

Passion is critical. I wouldn't hire someone if I didn't think they were passionate about building good products. Other passions can tell me something interesting about them, but that's the one that counts since that's what I would be hiring them to do. Maturity is also critical. And passion and maturity are not at all mutually exclusive. If there are misconceptions about passion floating around the memespace, then y…

I once watched management totally destroy a developer's passion.

As bad as management's actions were for me, the absolute worst thing was watching the change in this guy. Before, he would constantly seek out every way to improve the customer experience and go above and beyond. He turned into a guy who literally said "I don't give a shit."

Almost every person I've ever worked and every job with has been passionate about doing their best, unless actively stopped from doing it. The one or two who didn't could not have been filtered out by any kind of interview question because they knew how to bluff their way through the process. But you can tell after working with them for a few months that they just try to do the minimum necessary to not get fired.

An attempt to recruit for passion is a bad sign. You can't recruit for good morale, either.[1] Either your company is a nice place to work or it isn't. Either your company will bring out the passion that almost all developers have or it will destroy it.

[1] Yes, there are assholes who destroy morale, just like there are total clock-punchers. Sometimes you can tell by having a normal human conversation, and a normal human conversation should of course be part of any interview.

If you are are trying to find the liars, assholes, frauds, and professional slackers, you need to realize that

1) they have you vastly outmatched in this contest unless maybe you are bringing in psychologists trained in this,

2) there is a social cost from treating your prospective candidates as if they are one of these things.

Re: The Only Interview Question That Matters

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long does a work-sample test take? I'm typically hiring people to work on on-going projects over a period of months or years; the fact that candidate A does better on a 2-hour or 2-day task than candidate B may not give me that much information about things like how effective they will be at sharing their own knowledge with the rest of the team (or taking guidance from more senior members of the team), developing…

In our case? Call it ~6 hours, over the course of several (potentially discontiguous) days, offsite and at the candidate's leisure. Work sample testing has been extremely powerful for us. In particular: it has enabled us to screen candidates for aptitude instead of experience, and the result has been a series of hires with no prior experience in our (very specialized) field who have completely blown us the fuck away…

If this comment shows up hereafter on every "developers need passion" and hiring thread, I'll up vote it. every. single. time. Alternately, a blog post expanding on the thesis, if we could draft you to write it...

Re: The Only Interview Question That Matters

#146
post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I have written long and specific comments on alternative approaches on HN before and won't bore you with a recap, except to note that I sketched out what I meant by "rigor" in the comment rooting this thread.

I understand what you mean by rigor but I'm not sure that your quest for rigor in that sense would yield better results. I could be very wrong, of course, my experience is nothing but a relatively small list of anecdotes. But if you indeed have a rigorous way of assessing candidates, I certainly look forward for you to creating the best recruiting agency ever, becoming a billionaire and transforming this field foreve…

I've written about the results we've seen from more rigorous recruiting, too.

Re: The Only Interview Question That Matters

#147
post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if you are interviewing a kid from south-side Chicago or kid from third world who against all odds went to college? That is exactly the sort of achievement that impresses us, actually. For example, Qasar Younis started life in a house with dirt floors in a village in Pakistan. His family moved to the US, to Detroit, when he was 7. He appears to have worked his ass off from the moment they landed. We funded his s…

> His family moved to the US, to Detroit, when he was 7. This is not an example of someone who is from the third world or from a ghetto. Immigrant parents have strong work ethic which they instill in their kids ( I belong to the club, so I know). I am talking about girls from southside Chicago whose idea of 'achievement' is not getting pregnant by 15.

Detroit went from the best big city school system in 1950 to the worst today.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-high-schools/michigan/d...

Anyone who doesn't think excelling in that environment isn't a highly significant achievement is sadly mistaken.

Re: The Only Interview Question That Matters

#148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems to me a person with a single 1000-unit achievement would look better than a person with 1000 10-unit achievements if you ask about their single biggest achievement. Maybe I coded an iphone app. Meanwhile you coded an iphone app, and fixed bugs in a huge legacy codebase, and did hiring and code reviews and mentored new employees, and contributed to open source projects, and introduced your company to source cont…

Really? You wouldn't say, 'Saved the company a million dollars a year' or 'Introduced source control and automated testing into the company' ? To my mind those are much more impressive achievements than an iphone app (at least assuming it's a typical CRUD app.)

Depends on the interviewer, company and job.

Say I saved a million dollars a year by adjusting a configuration setting, no coding required. That might go over well with a business type, but if the interviewer is all about the programming, it doesn't demonstrate technical mastery. There will be no scope for talking about the technical challenges, the languages and databases I used, what I learned from the experience, or how much I enjoyed it and grew as a person and a professional.

Say I introduced source control and automated testing at a medium sized company. Again, the technical work is limited - you can install Jenkins with apt-get, the real challenges are political and educational, changing 'official' workflows and 'supported' software and convincing people to sink time into using the tools for long enough that they can see the benefits which are not immediately apparent. If I'm being interviewed by a young guy at a startup they might think they have no politics so my skills will be useless - or worse that I'll introduce politics. Or it just won't seem like much of an achievement, after all the six of us at this startup switched from bzr to git in an afternoon.

Needless to say, if the original job description says "wanted: someone to teach us source control and automated testing" that would be a different matter :)

Re: The Only Interview Question That Matters

#149
post #20

"What single project or task would you consider your most significant accomplishment in your career to date?" If this is the best question you can ask people, we got really lucky, because this is the essential question on all YC's application forms for events (e.g. Startup School) and has been one of the core questions on the YC application since the beginning.

This is problematic and discriminatory. I hope this doesn't become a trend. What if you are interviewing a kid from south-side Chicago or kid from third world who against all odds went to college. Is smart and motivated and could be a great asset to your company but never had the exposure to great ideas. You can argue that she can just say 'Going to college was my most significant achievement' but are you in a positi…

> In a age if great socio economic inequality very few people at the top of the society get to have ' significant accomplishment', it is more of an indicator of you socio economic status than your actual capabilities.

The "significant accomplishment" that the interviewer is looking for is one that the interviewee had to work relentlessly towards achieving. Not one that the interviewee "[got] to have" as if it were placed under his christmas tree with a red bow on top.

How does the interviewer know that the interviewee REALLY struggled with the issue? By having the interviewee go into great detail. The author of the article suggested discussing the accomplishment for 15-20 minutes, and he outlined over twenty questions that the interviewer should ask with respect to the accomplishment.

There's a short clip where Elon Musk outlines a similar approach to interviewing applicants:

"...I ask them to tell me about the problems they worked on and how they solved them. If someone was really the person that solved it, they'll be able to answer multiple levels, they'll be able to go down to the brass-tax. And if they weren't, they'll get stuck and you can say 'Oh this person was not really the person who solved it'. Because anyone who really struggled hard with a problem never forgets it."[1]

So, in this sense, I don't believe that the quality of the interviewee's answer hinges on "socio economic status". In fact -in my opinion- the less you have handed to you, the BETTER equipped you are to answer this question in a satisfactory manor.

[1]: http://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-job-interview-rule-...

Re: The Only Interview Question That Matters

#150
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, and good luck hiring anyone right out of college this way. I think it is a fantastic question to ask someone out of college. It shows those people who are passionate about something and went beyond the minimal requirements for their degree to achieve it. A passionate student could answer this question in a number of ways; he could point out an open source project that he published on Github that has users, some r…

There might be nothing in the industry that gets under my skin quite as effectively as engineers making hiring decisions based on the perceived "passion" of candidates. "Passion" doesn't matter. What matters in a job is effectiveness and competence. Effectiveness gets things done. Competence ensures that what's getting done isn't going to backfire and create more work down the line. In our common usage, "passion" des…

Passion is continuing to learn, because you realize that what you learned in school is not the end, but the beginning. Passion is continuing to learn, and having an opinion about "node.js or some other technologies" because using the right tool for the right job is important. Passion is being given a spec, and can not only reliably execute it, but can also offer ways to improve that spec, and not just be a coder without an opinion.

Thus, the only way to be effective and competent is to have a passion for what you do. Otherwise, if you limit yourself to 9 to 5, you'll be treated as such. And it works like that in many industries, and in those industries, those with a passion will routinely do better, whereas those that don't, will stick to the 9 to 5 places.

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