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Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

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Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#141

Post by philh »

gruseom wrote: post #120
philh wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It also clumsily fails to understand the genre it's trying to reproduce, the Unix joke name. Those jokes are encoded laconically into the name and only the name (e.g. "less") and then have the good taste to immediately expire. They don't get old because they don't overstay their welcome. I'm confused. Is the bro thing showing up in this command apart from in the name?

I thought it did from reading the blog post. Is that wrong? If so, I'll delete my comment.

Oh, I didn't see that there's 'bro thanks' and 'bro ...no' for voting. I wouldn't call that too much, but YMMV. I can't see anything else.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#143

Post by moocowduckquack »

res0nat0r wrote: post #112
blahedo wrote: post #99

Great idea; shame about the name. Here's the problem with using words like "bro" (however jokingly): the problem is not with what you [0] are thinking when you read the word "bro", but with what other people , especially newcomers, are thinking. The locker-room atmosphere that stuff like this creates is a huge barrier to entry for a lot of people, women especially, who infer that on top of all the technically difficu…

Or they aren't (over)thinking any of that above, and to most people it is a funny play on words since the tool is related to 'man' pages. I'm going to email the LKML immediately and petition that 'fsck' needs to be renamed to 'love', because I don't 'fsck', I make 'love' and I don't appreciate the negative stereotype that it implies I am some sort of inhuman non-lovemaking monster whilst going about my daily sysadmin…

Fsck is funnier to a much wider group of people.

The whole bro humour is deliberately exclusionary, it is an in-joke for tying together small groups of (mostly) young males. That is what it is for.

This is also why it can work well in small groups, because in-jokes can help tie them together. However, as evidenced by this thread, a lot of people, many with well developed senses of humour, just don't find the whole bro shtick really all that amusing, and if trying to appeal to a wider audience it is wise when using humour in a public service, to use jokes that most people might find funny, otherwise nobody bothers discussing the actual product, but just complains that they don't like the name, then you get usurped by the first decent copy that has a name people like more.

Also, French Connection UK has had FCUK on every high street in Britain for years, so I think you might be onto a loser for shock value with fsck, it seems people are far more offended by social concepts than by biology these days.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#145

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

lhnz wrote: post #107
couchand wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious that you seem to think that women and geeks are mutually exclusive groups...

No I didn't say that. I think that is completely false. >> A lot of geeks don't like 'bros' and I am doubting that they're hated by women as much. Personal opinion here, but: a lot of women have friends that are bros; a lot fewer geeks have friends that are bros. I think women that are geeks also have fewer 'bro' friends. Geek is a property of men and women, it is not a mutually-exclusive group. Nice try, trying to i…

If people are often reading sexist intent into your words maybe you ought to consider the possibility that the things you are writing are, in fact, sexist. Or be more careful.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#146

Post by marknutter »

blahedo wrote: post #99

Great idea; shame about the name. Here's the problem with using words like "bro" (however jokingly): the problem is not with what you [0] are thinking when you read the word "bro", but with what other people , especially newcomers, are thinking. The locker-room atmosphere that stuff like this creates is a huge barrier to entry for a lot of people, women especially, who infer that on top of all the technically difficu…

Actually, when I think of man pages I think about pompous neckbeards who get mad at plebians who are having a hard time understanding something rather than helping them with examples. So bro pages to me sound much more friendly; man pages that are aimed at the every day "bro".

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#147

Post by skybrian »

ihuman wrote: post #131
blahedo wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... aren't thinking any of that ... funny play on words That might well be true; my point is that at some point their individual thoughts don't matter, because they're referencing a larger meme. I'll add that if it were just a funny play on words, we might expect to see a name like "boy" or "guy" or "son" or "person" or any number of other names that are, ha-ha, kind of like "man". The fact that "bro" was picked wa…

Except that your argument has the same flaws has res0nat0r's argument: neither of you know what the author was thinking when he named it. Was the creator thinking of brogramming? Was the creator thinking of it being the "bro"ther of the man pages? None of us know, so it is useless to argue about it.

The author's intention matters when assigning blame. It doesn't matter if we're debating whether this is a good name to use from a marketing perspective.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#148

Post by forgottenpass »

stinos wrote: post #58
imdsm wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like it to be honest. It seems a bit kiddish really. Great idea though, but I would have preferred something else. Maybe `eg`? eg ls, eg cat, eg less etc.

This is actually a very, very good idea. Everybody knows it, it means one thing and one thing only, and that thing also describes what it does, it probably isn't taken, and fits nicely with all other standard descriptive commands like ls/man/... Nice one.

it means one thing and one thing only, and that thing also describes what it does, it probably isn't taken

http://packages.debian.org/search?suite=wheezy&arch=any&mode...

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#149

Post by gruseom »

philh wrote: post #141
gruseom wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it did from reading the blog post. Is that wrong? If so, I'll delete my comment.

Oh, I didn't see that there's 'bro thanks' and 'bro ...no' for voting. I wouldn't call that too much, but YMMV. I can't see anything else.

You have a good point. I rewrote my comment to make fewer assumptions.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#150

Post by grmarcil »

marknutter wrote: post #146
blahedo wrote: post #99

Great idea; shame about the name. Here's the problem with using words like "bro" (however jokingly): the problem is not with what you [0] are thinking when you read the word "bro", but with what other people , especially newcomers, are thinking. The locker-room atmosphere that stuff like this creates is a huge barrier to entry for a lot of people, women especially, who infer that on top of all the technically difficu…

Actually, when I think of man pages I think about pompous neckbeards who get mad at plebians who are having a hard time understanding something rather than helping them with examples. So bro pages to me sound much more friendly; man pages that are aimed at the every day "bro".

Yeah, man pages could go a long way in terms of providing some common use examples and more legible syntax to help out inexperienced users.

I like what "bro" pages are doing here in that regard, but the name is unfortunate enough to merit thinking about a change at this early stage of the project. I agree it is a pretty harmless pun on man pages, but considering that the tech industry is in a period of trying to overcome a lack of gender diversity, it could only help to avoid jokes like that come off as unfortunate or poorly thought out.

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