Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

arcticstartup.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 224 posts

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#141

Post by emiliobumachar »

supersystem wrote: post #42
throwawaycoder wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because men would never have thought of creating a programming book for kids? http://www.amazon.com/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Aprog... Or maybe because men can't draw as well as women? Edit: probably I'll get downvoted for this so I'll just add that I think it's good this book is being made. Can't hurt to try different things to get kids interested. Just not sure why the gender comment was necessary.

"Just not sure why the gender comment was necessary." I said nothing about gender nor did I intend to, that was your assumption.

Please do tell what you intended to mean by diversity in this context.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#142

Post by derefr »

run4_too wrote: post #133
derefr wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> presenting an idea and being told that it isn't good (by someone presenting no alternative) ... isn't something someone should need to deal with. I might be visualizing a different conversational domain than you are, but I'm not sure about this. For example, when you build a bridge, there's a clear, objective line of quality somewhere above "the bridge stays standing." If I know enough about physics to see that you…

>For example, when you build a bridge, there's a clear, objective line of quality somewhere above She isn't building a bridge, she's writing a story for children. The failure point is that nobody likes her story and therefore it doesn't sell. That's the absolute worst thing that can happen. Not a single child will be so critically scarred from her story that they never learn programming. Yet it may resonate for some.…

But you made a general argument (no one should ever have to deal with negative feedback without a proposed alternative), not one specific to this case. And in the general case, it's wrong. I agree completely that it's right in this specific case -- but you were rhetorically over-reaching.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#143

Post by fidotron »

MartinCron wrote: post #46
fit2rule wrote: post #16

Want to know how to teach kids to use computers? Give them an 8-bit machine from the 80's, and all the books for the thing that you can find. My kids have an old 8-bit machine .. and they love the thing. They can type in their own BASIC programs from tons of sources, or load up a hundred games and other educational apps from a disk that I know won't contain anything weird or offensive .. on a machine with no access t…

I've been thinking about the doing the exact same thing but have been afraid that the kids would ignore it and go back to playing Minecraft.

Minecraft, at least on Raspberry Pi, has a full API. It's likely a bit complex to get going with, but you might find you can build a layer your kids would find "useful".

http://www.stuffaboutcode.com/2013/04/minecraft-pi-edition-a...

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#144

Post by shangxiao »

deveac wrote: post #137
shangxiao wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the sentiment here, but please don't argue that boys benefit from this by having the chance to be obedient little utilities.

>but please don't argue that boys benefit from this by having the chance to be obedient little utilities. I wasn't arguing anything, merely clarifying the point of that poster. But since you brought it up , the argument that boys benefit from being exposed to values like acceptance of diversity, and stand to gain by not being exposed to gender prejudice as they learn about the world around them...well it is an argume…

Here we go... the delicate genius has been insulted...

Your use of quoting and italicised text makes you look so much more intelligent than me.

Btw, I wasn't reframing the poster's comment. That's what I was agreeing with, but I bet you couldn't see from behind all the red.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#145

Post by chc »

manish_gill wrote: post #134
callmeed wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for criticism that involves actual analysis and attempts to be constructive. That's not what I saw/see here. "Show HN" posts are specifically for criticism because (a) the OP asks for it and (b) we can actually put our eyes/ears/fingers on the product in question. This is a Kickstarter page for a product that hasn't even shipped yet . Instead of "I hope they cover loops", we get "she is odd in front of a came…

No. The truth is that you're being overly defensive. > I'm excited about this book. Even if I wasn't, I honestly can't imagine anything bad/wrong coming out of its existence. So we should all make smiley faces and exclamation marks and ZOMG children will learn coding because "nothing bad can come out of its existence"? > (a) the OP asks for it Oh I'm sorry, I'll never criticise anything ever again if OP doesn't ask f…

You're allowed to be a hater — much like you're allowed to walk around creepily breathing on people's necks — but it still makes your comments unpleasant and drags down the level of discourse here.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#146

Post by maaaats »

manish_gill wrote: post #134
callmeed wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm all for criticism that involves actual analysis and attempts to be constructive. That's not what I saw/see here. "Show HN" posts are specifically for criticism because (a) the OP asks for it and (b) we can actually put our eyes/ears/fingers on the product in question. This is a Kickstarter page for a product that hasn't even shipped yet . Instead of "I hope they cover loops", we get "she is odd in front of a came…

No. The truth is that you're being overly defensive. > I'm excited about this book. Even if I wasn't, I honestly can't imagine anything bad/wrong coming out of its existence. So we should all make smiley faces and exclamation marks and ZOMG children will learn coding because "nothing bad can come out of its existence"? > (a) the OP asks for it Oh I'm sorry, I'll never criticise anything ever again if OP doesn't ask f…

> But of course, how dare I criticise anything about those cute drawings. Think of the Children!

Your way of "argumenting" is not doing you any favors.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#147

Post by fidotron »

bloat wrote: post #43
fidotron wrote: post #19

Cynic hat on . . . I'm not sure I get this. Looks like an effort to promote an illustrator more than actually achieve the stated aims. The reasoning is simple: Alan Kay and others have repeatedly demonstrated kids have a far greater aptitude for this stuff than is generally accepted. The packaging in this manner isn't the problem, the problem is the programming environments around today don't tend to do anything the…

Many people, myself included, cut their teeth on machines where graphics were far from easy. Most of my early programs on the VIC20 and C64 were text adventures, and occasionaly I'd get into some games where the graphics were as exciting as moving asterisks.

Yeah, but as others observe this is a moving target. What impressed you and me in the 80s is not going to motivate a child that grew up playing on an iPad.

The art here is in finding the set of virtual objects needed for the desired result, ideally about which there is some existing intuition for reasoning about. In Mindstorms they have a good term for this that I've forgotten, of which the turtle is the object used to teach ideas of geometry, subroutines etc.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#148

Post by notastartup »

She is adorable! I was mesmerized by her than the message. I I was too distracted by her overall cuteness. Is this too "boyish" to admit?

Overall, I think the book idea is for a good cause, regardless of the author.

I also think this comic was very good too for learning ruby. too bad the author disappeared mysteriously.

http://mislav.uniqpath.com/poignant-guide/book/chapter-1.htm...

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#149

Post by fidotron »

Confusion wrote: post #120
fidotron wrote: post #19

Cynic hat on . . . I'm not sure I get this. Looks like an effort to promote an illustrator more than actually achieve the stated aims. The reasoning is simple: Alan Kay and others have repeatedly demonstrated kids have a far greater aptitude for this stuff than is generally accepted. The packaging in this manner isn't the problem, the problem is the programming environments around today don't tend to do anything the…

I don't think that reasoning is simple: I don't agree that what you assert has actually been demonstrated. There is no agreed-upon way in which you can teach kids programming. Otherwise: citation needed. Looks like an effort to promote an illustrator more [..] How about being a bit more generous as to someone's motives? Why not "achieving the stated aims, with the added benefit if promoting an illustrator?". Suppose…

If you're unfamiliar I would strongly recommend this ("Doing with Images Makes Symbols"): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZTz76_zdfk

The irony of this video is he's in danger of being referenced here in the same way he references Engelbart and Sutherland.

Re: Linda Liukas' Programming book for Children has Huge First Day on Kickstarter

#150

Post by wyager »

swang wrote: post #71

After reading the comments here, I am glad none of them are writing this book. If they had their way the kids would have gotten CLRS.

Yes, clearly the only way to teach things to children is with crayons and bright colors.
Post reply on HN