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N.S.A. Devises Radio Pathway Into Computers

nytimes.com

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Re: N.S.A. Devises Radio Pathway Into Computers

#141
post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course laws will protect us. They are actually our only real hope. With the right laws, Snowden is a whistleblower with due protection. There is no debate as to whether he is a "traitor" or who broke the law, and the entire dynamic is changed here. Either we are a nation of laws or we are not. Laws are what constrain our government and what confer and protect all of our rights. Why should this be any different? Wh…

Better laws, and official respect for them, would be the better solution if we had that option. But how do we get there? Has such a scenario ever effectively protected citizens from government in the real world? And what are we supposed to do in the meantime? "We cannot even duly protect ourselves from zero-day exploits" - well that's definitional, isn't it? It's hardly a reason to give up on trying to protect commun…

>Has such a scenario ever effectively protected citizens from government in the real world?

Of course it has, unless you believe that all of our rights in the U.S. are a sham, and are routinely violated in private by our government. No, it's not perfect and it never will be as long as humans are involved. But, there have to be definitions of right and wrong with associated penalties--in other words, laws.

>well that's definitional, isn't it?

That's my point. These things still exist. The fact that we continue to battle one-off hackers, groups, etc. and frequently lose should give us pause to consider whether this is really the cat-and-mouse posture we want to assume with the U.S. government.

>It's hardly a reason to give up on trying to protect communications from "big brother".

I don't have anything against taking prudent measures to protect our privacy in general. But, this idea that technical solutions will ultimately protect us from "big brother" is pure folly. Without the law on our side, we will lose.

Re: N.S.A. Devises Radio Pathway Into Computers

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like this make me think that maybe all the "acting naive about foreign affairs, diplomacy, and statecraft" is not actually acting. In the entire human history of diplomatic relations, nations have always attempted to spy on one another. Diplomatic relations are not based on trust, they are based on shared beliefs, interests, and goals.

Personally, I'd like to think that I live in a country that is above accepting such clandestine activities against its own citizens, allies and the citizens of its allies as the status quo. This is not such a naïve viewpoint as you may think since I would expect it to be the average of the viewpoints that many Americans held about its own government up until a year or so ago. To most Americans, a year ago the NSA did…

It's not that spying on Merkel (she seems lovely), is in fact a profitable affair, but there are so many other instances where it would indeed be profitable. Where do you draw the line? After the reset are the Russians off limits? After the Russo-Georgian Olympic war are the Georgians off limits? After South Sudanese independence are they off limits? Do you think any of them view us as off limits? Hell does even name-any-random-western-european-nation think we're off limits? No. I'm wholly in favor of the NSA not touching a single American email, but their job is to spy on relevant foreign targets. As long as they stick to that job (not saying they have so far, in fact I am rather uncomfortable with the earlier Snowden revelations), then yes I am OK with this.

The citizen will always vote based on (US or not) (a/dis)information in the sense that every government has secrets. The key is maintaining a state where the secrets are not destructive to the underlying society that supports that given government. I am not entirely assured that the US has achieved that, however I do not think (betting man here) that we have fully failed that.

Downvote if you must, but there is a not small tragedy in verbally damming the deeds of those whom we literally paid to do it in the first place (spying on Americans not included, more referring to the foreign targeting referred to in the parent article).

Re: N.S.A. Devises Radio Pathway Into Computers

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't you be building bombs to prop up your economy?

Y'all make a cute couple. Please invite me to the wedding!

I think this thread is a manifestation of the broader trap that we are in as a culture, in that we cannot seem to break out of the dialectic-materialist mode of argument, even though its not the only way we can form a consensus..

Re: N.S.A. Devises Radio Pathway Into Computers

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a foreigner, comments like yours make me question my assumption that regular Americans are not responsible for the atrocities committed by USG. Why is anyone upset? I don't know, people don't want to be spied on? Hmm, yes, that may be the case here.

As a rational person on planet earth I can safely assume that if your country is not too broke to afford a spy service then it has probably attempted to spy/spied on the US at some point. That's what countries do when they don't know something that someone else is unwilling to tell them. Do you really think that the US is unique in spying? or that the scale is even unique? Pro tip: if you do you're wrong.

Yes, the scale is unique for many reasons, one of the most important being that most of internet backbone including consumer services are located in the US jurisdiction. Your pro tip is worth nothing.

Re: N.S.A. Devises Radio Pathway Into Computers

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a rational person on planet earth I can safely assume that if your country is not too broke to afford a spy service then it has probably attempted to spy/spied on the US at some point. That's what countries do when they don't know something that someone else is unwilling to tell them. Do you really think that the US is unique in spying? or that the scale is even unique? Pro tip: if you do you're wrong.

Yes, the scale is unique for many reasons, one of the most important being that most of internet backbone including consumer services are located in the US jurisdiction. Your pro tip is worth nothing.

So Russia and China have no comparably scaled intelligence efforts?
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