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Fired? Speak No Evil

nytimes.com

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Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#141

Post by dreamdu5t »

geebee wrote: post #109

I have serious misgivings about this sort of "hush money". In general, I'd prefer not to interfere in private contracts, but this one has such serious implications for everyone else. In particular, it can end up creating an information imbalance, enforced by the courts, that allows a certain group of people to remain "in the know", with everyone else unaware of what is going on. I read a while back about a law firm t…

The article works against your point. Ultimately, he didn't take the money. We aren't in danger of living in a world where people can't talk about work. The vast majority of employers wouldn't be able to afford such a clause.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#142

Post by danielweber »

crusso wrote: post #106
danielweber wrote: post #35

And I was soon informed that the president wished to assure me that there is nothing unusual about such clauses Whoop whoop whoop! This sets off giant alarm bells in my head. It might be totally normal. That doesn't mean you should sign it. It's also an older-than-dirt salesman tactic to say that something you just made up is "totally common." Of course, the company can attach whatever clauses it wants to a separatio…

I'll tell other engineers that two weeks' salary is a piddly amount for the company for you to surrender such rights So it isn't worth just moving on with your career for, say, $3k (assuming a moderate $80k/yr salary)? Seems like Internet bravado to me. I click okay on all sorts of terms of use agreements for my PS3 just to play some games.

It might be worth it, and I might sign it. I was just trying to get the point across (and may have failed) that the company will probably be as willing to give you 4 weeks as to give you 2 weeks.

A PS3 contract is signed under much different circumstances. It's a contract of adhesion and it's most likely to cover PlayStation's ass from people suing them for all sorts of bullshit reasons, not to enable them to sue you because you gave a bad review.

The company CEO might have something snap in his head and decide that the reason the company failed is that his ex-employees were stealing stuff. I've seen it happen twice, fortunately never to me.

On this note, I would be totally okay with signing a "this firing was not illegal" contract for a few weeks severance. That's more of the company wanting its ass covered if you try a bogus wrong-termination suit, which I totally understand.

tldr: I think "this is so you/someone else can't sue us" clauses are much more ethical and reasonable than "this is so we can sue you" clauses.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#143

Post by robbiea »

I think the issue that Will Blythe might face now is that he has now alienated himself against future employers. Here is a guy who is willingly going to criticize a company he leaves (or maybe even currently employed at), just because he feels like it.

There once was a hugely popular tech gossip newsletter in Chicago that once publicly criticized an employer for screwing over his part-time editor in some sort of business deal. On one hand it's great that the employer was called out for some wrong-doings, but most importantly who is going to hire that editor now? Not me, that's for sure. You want me to hire someone who if I have a disagreement with is now going to tell her side and her side only on this email newsletter which she has priority access too and essentially put me on blast?

Will put his previous employer on blast without any quotes from them or getting their side on it. Does Will feel better about it? absolutely. Is this going to help his chances of getting a job with a new employer. Not a chance. Maybe this will help him sell his books?

| Mind you, I’m not looking to disparage Byliner.

This is the equivalent of saying, No offense but.. or I'm not a racist, but...

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#144

Post by aragot »

GotAnyMegadeth wrote: post #77
silverbax88 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Name another reason that doesn't fall under those nine. I'm honestly not trying to argue, just asking. There aren't really that many reasons why people leave. People leave because they aren't happy or aren't getting paid enough or they have a personal situation that dictates it. There are really just 3 reasons but I elaborated because I expected people to start chiming in with all of the reasons I missed.

Just won the lottery Close relative has received a terminal diagnosis Believed their horrorscope Got pregnant Saved enough money to retire to Thailand Spouse has had an affair with a co-worker (Trust aside this is still a good reason)

I probably wouldn't talk about any of those reasons in most situations.

People who leave usually negociate or talk up before they leave. If you need the exit interview, then your management is seriously unable to hear. In which case the exit interview won't be acted upon anyway.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#145

Post by BlackDeath3 »

michaelt wrote: post #89
dasil003 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So rather than ask the person like a grownup they should wildly speculate in order to make everyone less uncomfortable? I mean you have a list of 9 reasons off the top of your head and it's just the tip of the iceberg.

So rather than ask the person like a grownup they should wildly speculate in order to make everyone less uncomfortable? When a parent asks friends "look at this photo, isn't my baby beautiful?" the answer is information-free as everyone will say "yes, that is a cute baby". Exit interviews are the same. But unlike the stuff with a parent, it doesn't have the social-bond-building value of gossip. With an exit interview…

>When a parent asks friends "look at this photo, isn't my baby beautiful?" the answer is information-free as everyone will say "yes, that is a cute baby".

One of my life goals is to always answer this question honestly.

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#146

Post by at-fates-hands »

dubcanada wrote: post #107
crusso wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll tell other engineers that two weeks' salary is a piddly amount for the company for you to surrender such rights So it isn't worth just moving on with your career for, say, $3k (assuming a moderate $80k/yr salary)? Seems like Internet bravado to me. I click okay on all sorts of terms of use agreements for my PS3 just to play some games.

The stuff I agree too just to play video games, I'm surprised I still have legal rights sometimes...

Agreed

I had a friend who was a contract lawyer, and pointed out several clauses in my wireless contract and my internet contract. It was pretty eye opening.

Needless to say, you'd be surprised what you agree to when you sign contracts:

"Please be aware that we may change your wireless device's software, applications or programming remotely, without notice."

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#148

Post by jrockway »

Very nicely done. Whenever someone wants you to sign something they say is "meaningless", refuse. If it's meaningless, why would they want you to sign it?

At the very least, hold out for more money and a time limit. Ask them to keep you on salary for 6 months, and you'll agree not to disparage them for a year, or something like that. A 50% discount! Think of the burn rate!

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#149

Post by TomSawyer »

jgalt212 wrote: post #76
neohaven wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on where you are, "severance", or the 2-week pay after you have been told you do not have a job anymore, may or may not be a worker's right.

If it's a mass layoff, the event will probably fall under the WARN act which requires 60 days notice for "full-time" workers. http://humanresources.about.com/od/glossaryw/qt/WARN_Act.htm

A place that I worked at two years ago laid off 2/3 of the company just 49 days after I'd joined. They weren't as brain dead as the federal legislature so they simply framed it as temporary for five months which falls under the requirements of "WARN."

Re: Fired? Speak No Evil

#150

Post by kabdib »

I've been in a couple exit interviews where the terms were crappy.

One I didn't have a choice with: The company was shutting down, and while I was going to get a severance check I was going to have to wait a period mandated by law (because I was a protected class, being over 40 at the time). Fortunately there was money left in the bank when I was able to collect the check (the founders had deep pockets and had committed to paying).

The second was when a start-up tried to stiff me on vacation pay, which in California is yours. I just said, "This is unacceptable" and sat there. 20 minutes later, after some apologizing and attempts to justify it with "well, that was your sick pay, too..." they cut a check.

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