David Simon: 'There are now two Americas. My country is a horror show'

Post by hacknat » Sun, Dec 08, 2013, 6:49 PM UTC

sologoub wrote: post #128

hacknat wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some laws might be unjust, but the vast majority are just. It doesn't really seem like you're examining this assumption too closely. The vast majority are just? Really, the vast majority or laws are immaterial to criminal behavior. The vast majority of law is definition, e.g. Telecom companies are only allowed to use such-and-such a frequency band, utility companies must implement such-and-such safety measures, banks…

I'm not intending to insult your intelligence. I simply disagree with your sentiment. Having the benefit of knowing exactly what life is like in less fortunate society than US, it's a matter of perspective. Compare the state of law and law enforcement in US, say to Russia, and you will see that by this standard things aren't that bad here. No doubt they can be better, but at least I have some recourse under the law h…

Post by enraged_camel » Sun, Dec 08, 2013, 6:53 PM UTC

bmelton wrote: post #31

majika wrote: post #6

This is a remarkably sensible speech. The idea that the market will solve such things as environmental concerns, as our racial divides, as our class distinctions, our problems with educating and incorporating one generation of workers into the economy after the other when that economy is changing; the idea that the market is going to heed all of the human concerns and still maximise profit is juvenile. It's a juvenil…

I upvoted you, but I think I disagree largely with the sentiment you expressed. As one of those wacky libertarians, I'd like to defend (what I think is) the default liberty-oriented position. Disclaimer, the following is a series of value judgements, and not necessarily steeped in fact. The argument isn't necessarily one based on 'more' vs. 'less' government, but 'Constitutionally prescribed' government size. The Con…

Post by Zigurd » Sun, Dec 08, 2013, 6:54 PM UTC

jrmenon wrote: post #72

majika wrote: post #6

This is a remarkably sensible speech. The idea that the market will solve such things as environmental concerns, as our racial divides, as our class distinctions, our problems with educating and incorporating one generation of workers into the economy after the other when that economy is changing; the idea that the market is going to heed all of the human concerns and still maximise profit is juvenile. It's a juvenil…

Not just the Nordic model, but even the achievements of some European countries (notably Germany) and Japan, would have been possible without US security guarantees? Essentially the US/Nato is the main protector of Western interests, and American taxpayers ( + deficit financing ) essentially props up these 'regimes' - granted they are more democratic, and there is a great deal of autonomy than a traditional vassal st…

Post by patcon » Sun, Dec 08, 2013, 6:55 PM UTC

avar wrote: post #28

majika wrote: post #6

This is a remarkably sensible speech. The idea that the market will solve such things as environmental concerns, as our racial divides, as our class distinctions, our problems with educating and incorporating one generation of workers into the economy after the other when that economy is changing; the idea that the market is going to heed all of the human concerns and still maximise profit is juvenile. It's a juvenil…

The libertarian and anti-government sentiments aren't saying that we shouldn't be all in this together, but that we shouldn't be forced to be all in this together. That difference is what the entire argument is about. Few people are saying saying "let's not do this" for some value of "this", they're saying "let's not force everyone to do this". That's a very profound difference, it's why having the government make an…

Post by anoncowherd » Sun, Dec 08, 2013, 6:56 PM UTC

saraid216 wrote: post #53

avar wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The libertarian and anti-government sentiments aren't saying that we shouldn't be all in this together, but that we shouldn't be forced to be all in this together. That difference is what the entire argument is about. Few people are saying saying "let's not do this" for some value of "this", they're saying "let's not force everyone to do this". That's a very profound difference, it's why having the government make an…

> Few people are saying saying "let's not do this" for some value of "this", they're saying "let's not force everyone to do this". And while this makes sense from a naive perspective, it always rapidly breaks down in reality. That's why Simon, and others, call it juvenile. The complexity isn't hard to see: just use one level of meta. Given an action or policy or whatever S, have the policy S' of "Do not force everyon…