Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

aclu.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 513 posts

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#141

Post by cmccabe »

lostlogin wrote: post #33
spodek wrote: post #7

It's a crying shame. Normally that's an empty phrase, but it describes this. I can't imagine reading this and not feeling tears well up. No sense of what I would call humanity. From what perspective does this make the world a better place? What am I missing about being human that this fits into that I don't understand?

Failure to sign the Ottawa treaty (anti landmine) and the international criminal court agreements, execution of minors (and execution at all), assassination of opponents even if citizens (via drones), torture, war crimes, illegal invasions, use of phosphorus (probably comes under war crimes), continual killing of civilians in non declared wars, massive prison population, secret prisons, outsourcing torture, supportin…

Three-strikes laws are dumb, but so are you. Take your anti-US agenda somewhere else. I suggest North Korea, China, Venezuela, Iran, Russia, or any of the other countries not allied with us, so you can see how much "better" they are.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#142

Post by thaumasiotes »

mikeash wrote: post #78
thaumasiotes wrote: post #47

My thoughts on the best and the worst: > Anthony Jackson has a sixth-grade education and worked as a cook. He was convicted of burglary for stealing a wallet from a Myrtle Beach hotel room when he was 44 years old. According to prosecutors, he woke two vacationing golfers as he entered the room and stole a wallet, then pretended to be a security guard and ran away. Police arrested him when he tried to use the stolen…

Where do you draw the line? I bet you wouldn't go for life in prison for someone who get three speeding tickets. Once we agree that there is a line, then it just comes down to which side of the line a particular crime is on. I don't see wallet theft as being all that serious. Yeah, it sucks to be the victim (been there, done that) but it's fairly minor in the grand scheme of things. Ultimately, the point of letting h…

> I bet you wouldn't go for life in prison for someone who get three speeding tickets.

Sure.

> Once we agree that there is a line, then it just comes down to which side of the line a particular crime is on.

I actually don't find this to follow, because your example is exceptionally poor. I don't favor speeding tickets at all; as far as I can see, they're just a way for governments to capriciously collect extra revenue from people without giving it the politically unpopular name of "taxes".

Repeated-burglaries guy is obviously opting out of functioning in society. If the cost of keeping him out of it exceeds the cost he inflicts by his presence, I'd say we should keep him incarcerated and spend less, not just tell him "OK, burgle all you want".

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#143

Post by chc »

mschuster91 wrote: post #137
chc wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My theory: Hacker News has been allowing more political stories through, which attracts a certain kind of poster, which has the effect of lowering the level of discourse overall (even among erstwhile "good" commenters). The actual political threads themselves, like this one, tend to be a little ahead of the curve. The strong aversion to politics was one of the things I liked about Hacker News. A lot of political issu…

The noteworthy politics-related stories I've seen in the last months almost always deal with either the NSA scandal or other attacks to basic human rights, including this one. And I don't see any reason for these stories not to be on HN. Human rights matter for everyone.

Yes, human rights matter to everyone. So do urination and defecation — we quite literally could not live without them — but those aren't appropriate in all situations either.

When I say something doesn't belong on Hacker News, I don't mean it's unimportant or doesn't matter. I just mean that it isn't what this site is for. There are many, many stories that are relevant and important to me personally that are still not appropriate for every site I go to.

Think about it this way: Would you go on a My Little Pony fan site and post this stuff there? Human rights are just as crucial for My Little Pony fans, but it's easier to recognize that they aren't appropriate for a single-topic site. Hacker News is not a single-topic site, but it is still a site with a focus. If you look at the guidelines, politics are explicitly called out as being off-topic.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#144

Post by itchitawa »

protomyth wrote: post #35
anigbrowl wrote: post #4

This is poorly focused. I'm absolutely against 3 strikes sentencing laws and mandatory sentencing escalations that can put petty criminals in prison for life. On the other hand, I'm perfectly OK with some criminals dying behind bars, such as the recently sentenced Whitey Bulger, and so are most other people. By making the headline about the undesirability of custodial life sentences in general, they'er losing a large…

This 3 strikes law reeks of injustice. I too am fine with certain violent offenders spending life behind bars, but this is just plain stupid and frankly not cost effective[1]. Let's save the jail space for murders, pedophiles, rapists, and violent offenders then put money into programs to rehabilitate folks. 1) I still get mad when I hear other small government folks who are ok with this crap. I'm against the death p…

Please don't lump pedophiles in with murderers. Many of them are in prison simply for downloading a file from the internet. In some cases, the content is perfectly legal and harmless but was edited to be sexually suggestive and the people caught with it end up in prison. That's not to say some don't actually abuse children, but many do not.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#145

Post by eruditely »

hobs wrote: post #3
mschuster91 wrote: post #2

As an European citizen, I think such "sentences" are more resembling China, Russia or any other dictatorship, but not a first-world country. Do human rights actually mean something in the US?

If you are poor? Not really. Every person that I see listed was not able to afford a decent lawyer.

This highlights the necessity of putting yourself in a good financial situation, otherwise be put in prison or just be black I suppose. This situation is unfathomable .

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#146

Post by cmccabe »

edvinbesic wrote: post #91

The 3 strikes law system seems beyond ridiculous. Not being a US native, does this mean that I can get three tickets for shoplifting and go to jail for life? What about 3 speeding tickets? /genuinely curious

Let's try wikipedia:

The three-strikes law significantly increases the prison sentences of persons convicted of a felony who have been previously convicted of two or more violent crimes or serious felonies, and limits the ability of these offenders to receive a punishment other than a life sentence. Violent and serious felonies are specifically listed in state laws. Violent offenses include murder, robbery of a residence in which a deadly or dangerous weapon is used, rape and other sex offenses; serious offenses include the same offenses defined as violent offenses, but also include other crimes such as burglary of a residence and assault with intent to commit a robbery or murder.

So, since speeding is not a felony, it has no relevance here. Shoplifting might be a felony, but it would only invoke three strikes if you already had two prior felonies which also happened to be violent.

By the way, I'm not defending three-strikes laws, just describing them. I think they are a bad idea. I also think the ACLU is whitewashing the records of a lot of the people involved here.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#147

Post by itchitawa »

coldtea wrote: post #30
anigbrowl wrote: post #4

This is poorly focused. I'm absolutely against 3 strikes sentencing laws and mandatory sentencing escalations that can put petty criminals in prison for life. On the other hand, I'm perfectly OK with some criminals dying behind bars, such as the recently sentenced Whitey Bulger, and so are most other people. By making the headline about the undesirability of custodial life sentences in general, they'er losing a large…

> On the other hand, I'm perfectly OK with some criminals dying behind bars Lots of people from similar backward countries are perfectly OK with this. I mean, if I recall correctly you even still have the death penalty. Heck, it's only like 4 decades since you ended racial seggregation (in paper). Hopefully, in 3-4 decades you'll turn to more modern and humanistic views on justice, catcing up to most Western European…

Scandanavian countries don't have as many blacks as the US.

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#148

Post by tshile »

riggins wrote: post #23
BorisMelnik wrote: post #6

this is so ridiculous. 3 strikes laws are meant for murderers who just don't know how to stop carrying guns, not these people.

in a sane world this would be true. sadly, in this world 3 strikes laws aren't meant just for murderers.

in a sane world murders get 3 chances?

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#149

Post by beloch »

The U.S. and Canada have very similar cultures, so comparisons here have some meaning. The U.S.'s per capita incarceration rate is 6.28 times Canada's [1] and the per capita number of police officers is 1.26 times higher in the U.S.[2]. However, the intentional homicide rate of the U.S. is 2.94 times that of Canada[3]. Certain types of offenses (e.g. drug offenses) are higher in Canada, but the violent crime rate is lower.

It's worth asking what is going on here. I'm no expert on law and punishment, but it seems like the U.S. is throwing more resources at the problem (perhaps prodded by for-profit prison lobbyists) and getting poorer results. The cultures are too similar to explain this away by saying Canadians are inherently less violent. As Canada considers harsher prison sentences and expanding prison capacity, it's imperative to understand if this will produce the intended results.

[1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcerat...

[2]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_number_of_...

[3]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentiona...

Re: A living death: Sentenced to die behind bars for what?

#150

Post by jevinskie »

cmccabe wrote: post #141
lostlogin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Failure to sign the Ottawa treaty (anti landmine) and the international criminal court agreements, execution of minors (and execution at all), assassination of opponents even if citizens (via drones), torture, war crimes, illegal invasions, use of phosphorus (probably comes under war crimes), continual killing of civilians in non declared wars, massive prison population, secret prisons, outsourcing torture, supportin…

Three-strikes laws are dumb, but so are you. Take your anti-US agenda somewhere else. I suggest North Korea, China, Venezuela, Iran, Russia, or any of the other countries not allied with us, so you can see how much "better" they are.

I didn't down vote you but I will disagree with you. Criticizing the US does not mean that you support/can't criticize other countries.
Post reply on HN