Mangalyaan, India’s First Mars Mission • Hacker News Board

Re: Mangalyaan, India’s First Mars Mission

#141

Post by mebesilly » Tue, Nov 05, 2013, 11:58 PM UTC

anupshinde wrote: post #52

Just had a thought - Outsourcing Space Exploration - makes sense?

ISRO's commercial arm has put 28 satellites in space for foreign countries, including TECAR, a military satellite for Israel. http://www.antrix.gov.in/is_launched.html http://www.antrix.gov.in/launch_services.html

They also sell complete satellites to those who want to use other launch firms. http://www.antrix.gov.in/geostationary.html In addition, if you want to build your own satellite, you can buy space subsystems from ISRO. http://www.antrix.gov.in/sss_systems.html If you need ground systems to track your space hardware, that can be obtained for a price too. http://www.antrix.gov.in/gsystems.html

The Mars mission is good advertising and will help to grow ISRO's space outsourcing business

Re: Mangalyaan, India’s First Mars Mission

#142

Post by pramalin » Wed, Nov 06, 2013, 12:04 AM UTC

svasan wrote: post #122

pramalin wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India's superstitions are far more deeper and affect common people in their daily life. Kudos to ISRO on this mission, as they might have faced lots of opposition to their operations from many sides. Even the Nobel laureate scientist C.V Raman opposed space explorations in his time, saying that they are meddling with Gods. For example, Mars is considered as a malicious planet in their astrology and people fear its ef…

>>> Even the Nobel laureate scientist C.V Raman opposed space explorations in his time, saying that they are meddling with Gods. Could you provide some citation here? As far as CV Raman's religious inclinations were concerned, my understanding is that he was an agnostic [1]. Being a scientist himself, I don't think it would have been in his nature to stifle the spirit of scientific inquiry in the name of religion. [1…

I have read about C.V Raman's objections to space missions in Tamil language sites only.

I dug up the following for your reference:

http://new.modernrationalist.com/2012/07/science-vs-religion...

Re: Mangalyaan, India’s First Mars Mission

#143

Post by discardorama » Wed, Nov 06, 2013, 12:49 AM UTC

UweSchmidt wrote: post #99

discardorama wrote: post #57

Every single time India does something in Space, the bigots come out from the woodwork: but India is so poor! Let them solve poverty/hunger/education/water/toilets/ice-cream first, and then worry about space. When JFK pledged to put a man on the moon in 1961, the US did not even have the Civil Rights Act[1]. Millions of blacks lived in poverty, and were denied basic rights. Schools were segregated. In large areas of…

Could you state your argument more precisely, please? The original argument would be "don't do Space, solve povery/hunger/education...". You point out that "poverty/hunger/education..." have improved despite Space. This does only partly contradict the original argument, since there are plenty of severe and urgent problems today, including some of those from the 1961. Additionally, can you explain the usage of the wor…

> You point out that "poverty/hunger/education..." have improved despite Space.

I did no such thing.

I'm saying that you can't wait to solve all problems before you take on space exploration. They are not mutually exclusive. One can do space exploration while simultaneously working to alleviate poverty/hunger/illiteracy/etc. The example of the US in 1961 was meant to illustrate that: the US was fighting a war in Vietnam, a massive Civil Rights movement at home, and still managed to put a man on the moon.

Re: Mangalyaan, India’s First Mars Mission

#144

Post by discardorama » Wed, Nov 06, 2013, 12:56 AM UTC

bolder88 wrote: post #107

discardorama wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You seem to have a problem with this simple wish but perhaps you can explain what it is? My problem is with the assumption that this miniscule amount of "aid" is somehow significant. Do realize that when countries give "aid", it is often more for domestic reasons. This "aid" comes with all sorts of strings attached, and benefits the donor country more than the recipient. Case in point: US military aid to Israel com…

As stated elsewhere, foreign aid from the UK to india is £280m. But I'm glad that's such a miniscule amount to you.

India's budget for this year is ~ $270B. So this "aid" from Britain (most of which would be absorbed by British charities buying British goods and hiring British consultants anyways) amounts to about 0.1% of the budget. Sounds pretty miniscule to me; and in terms of impact, would have roughly the same effect as a flea jumping on an elephant.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Union_budget_of_India

Re: Mangalyaan, India’s First Mars Mission

#145

Post by kamaal » Wed, Nov 06, 2013, 4:34 AM UTC

shas3 wrote: post #110

deepGem wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad worked at ISRO for 30+ years and is now retired - so what I'm saying has some merit. I don't know where you are getting the impression that ISRO engineers aren't paid well. Sure, they are not paid Google salaries but they are no way paid peanuts. A fresh engineering graduate will stand to get around 40K INR per month. Please not that if you are not landing up a software job, in India, it's a pretty shitty mark…

My father used to work for ISRO too, from '74 to '97. He started with Satish Dhawan, one of the founders of the Indian space program. They moved at the same time from IISc. I agree with everything deepGem has to say about ISRO. It is far from the 'third world space program' that many like to romanticize. Few thoughts: - There is a common myth, one about how Indians used bullock carts to test the antennas on a satelli…

I wanted to comment on the other comment, but those people were getting abusive and had to stop there.

>>My father used to work for ISRO too, from '74 to '97.

This is comparing Apples to Oranges. 1974 India had such a dismal technology scene, ISRO would have looked like India's technology paradise back then. What were the opportunities for technology folks then? Trying settling down in Europe or US, if you can't the next best case scenario is work at BHEL, ITI, BEL and ISRO sort of companies. The next alternative was to work at a assembly line, and next is open a small time grocery shop.

I see this tone repeatedly mentioned how some one's dad had so much from ISRO at a time when India was in deep clutches of socialism. Technology imports are tightly regulated by license raj system. Any comparison between Government firms and private firms from those times is totally meaningless. Because the very concept of a good career in a non-government firm was non-existent. So its not at all strange that people working in ISRO had a good career, because frankly what exactly was there apart from the government firms.

We are talking of times when the Ambassador was the only car in India, a telephone connection used to take years to get, and getting a current account in a bank required police verification. And the term private firm was synonymous with a TATA owned company.

By these standards, ISRO is the best career option you could have in those days.

There is no way you can compare that with IT companies today. Not with the kind of technology infrastructure, or even working conditions, or the compensation and benefits.

The scenario today is the very exact opposite of 1970's.

Re: Mangalyaan, India’s First Mars Mission

#146

Post by svasan » Wed, Nov 06, 2013, 6:42 AM UTC

sateesh wrote: post #132

dragonwriter wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ritual is a description of a kind of routinized action; superstition is a description of belief. You might engage in ritual because of superstition, but they are very much not the same thing, and you can have ritual without superstition and superstition without ritual.

Agreed, ritual and superstition are not the same. But both are similar in nature that one cannot rationally question the set of steps that are followed (as in ritual) or the belief (superstition). Most of the times they are supposed to be accepted as given/prescribed. Any challenge to them and deviation from them is not well tolerated. Also the probable rationale attached to them might have been have been relevant du…

Have you ever tried to understand the rationale behind a religious ritual? Not from your viewpoint - but from the viewpoint of why such a ritual came into existence? Did you equip yourself with the tools to undertake such a study?

For e.g., I perform a religious ritual called Sandhyavandanam [1]. This ritual comprises of many components. I see merit in many components of this daily ritual. Some components, I have not been able to appreciate their rationale. But I trust the seers who would have formulated such rituals. I do not have the time to go into every detail of every ritual and understand the underlying motivation(s) and perform the ritual as is. Same with science. I do not question every theory/law/hypothesis. I just trust the scientists and researchers. If and when "I" perceive an inconsistency in a ritual or a scientific law/theory/hypothesis I question it or try to understand more about it.

[1] - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandhyavandanam

Re: Mangalyaan, India’s First Mars Mission

#147

Post by praveer13 » Wed, Nov 06, 2013, 7:40 AM UTC

truthteller wrote: post #139

factorialboy wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, just maybe, the British should not have colonized and looted India and parts of Asia and Africa for 300 years?

without British rule India would be an even bigger shit hole.

^this gentlemen is how you openly admit your bigotry.

Re: Mangalyaan, India’s First Mars Mission

#148

Post by praveer13 » Wed, Nov 06, 2013, 7:45 AM UTC

known wrote: post #120

And http://www.dailymail.co.uk/indiahome/indianews/article-24804...

Indian government is already spending billions on poverty problem. Money spent on this mission is less than 1% of money spent on welfare. You can't stop everything else and just focus on poverty. Poor people are not the only ones living in India, there are educated people who need jobs too.

Re: Mangalyaan, India’s First Mars Mission

#149

Post by UweSchmidt » Wed, Nov 06, 2013, 7:54 AM UTC

discardorama wrote: post #143

UweSchmidt wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you state your argument more precisely, please? The original argument would be "don't do Space, solve povery/hunger/education...". You point out that "poverty/hunger/education..." have improved despite Space. This does only partly contradict the original argument, since there are plenty of severe and urgent problems today, including some of those from the 1961. Additionally, can you explain the usage of the wor…

> You point out that "poverty/hunger/education..." have improved despite Space. I did no such thing. I'm saying that you can't wait to solve all problems before you take on space exploration. They are not mutually exclusive. One can do space exploration while simultaneously working to alleviate poverty/hunger/illiteracy/etc. The example of the US in 1961 was meant to illustrate that: the US was fighting a war in Viet…

Fair enough.

All nations have budgets for a multitude of programs and can work simultaneously on different goals.

Obviously, they all draw from a single ressource, money, and therefore priorties have to be weighted carefully.

Overall I'm not getting many good arguments on how to handle this except "Why, things have improved, haven't they? Give me Star Trek" and "Bigots!".

I suspect that this is because Space fans are on average less affected by the above mentioned acute problems, more likely to benefit professionally from investment in space programs, and generally appreciate the nature of space missions: A difficult task, but with a clear solution through engineering.

Re: Mangalyaan, India’s First Mars Mission

#150

Post by bolder88 » Wed, Nov 06, 2013, 7:56 AM UTC

praveer13 wrote: post #147

truthteller wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

without British rule India would be an even bigger shit hole.

^this gentlemen is how you openly admit your bigotry.

If you haven't seen it, I'd recommend watching "An idiot abroad". It's a great travel show with Karl Pilkington. He goes to foreign lands and tells it how it is.