Get Shit Done: The Worst Startup Culture • Hacker News Board

Re: Get Shit Done: The Worst Startup Culture

#141

Post by ExpiredLink » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 8:10 PM UTC

RougeFemme wrote: post #73

smacktoward wrote: post #8

Is this an actual thing? Are there really people out there who think running around yelling "Get Shit Done!" constitutes actual project management? We are doomed.

There are those who believe that projects don't need any management, just "doing/executing". . .and that when projects fail, it's because project management got in the way. . .which is true sometimes, but not usually.

I had a manager who day-to-day (literally) asked the same question: "Are you done?" - until someone asked: "What is your definition of done?".

Re: Get Shit Done: The Worst Startup Culture

#142

Post by UK-AL » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 8:31 PM UTC

prostoalex wrote: post #137

UK-AL wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a Daily WTF, but it's also very common. Its seems most companies don't realise the easiest way to move fast, is a extensible, easy to change/understand code base. And not going through spaghetti code with a fine tooth comb. Odd they recommended research, they only care about one off prototypes. The problem is future employers assume your the problem. Btw, Proper scrum/agile encourages people to refactor a…

> Btw, Proper scrum/agile encourages people to refactor and keep technical debt down. How? At the place I worked that followed agile by the book the backlog prioritization was done by product owner, who prioritized by the value to the business. Since it was a customer- (and hence sales-) driven business, any trivial change that was visible to the customers ("change subheading to Verdana") was prioritized higher than…

We allocate so many sprint storypoints for keeping technical debt down. That's a fixed amount, immune from interference. The value justification is thst it allows you implement features faster long term rather getting clunkly a codebase. So it does provide customer value.

For long tasks you use a thing called epics.

Re: Get Shit Done: The Worst Startup Culture

#143

Post by nostrademons » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 8:32 PM UTC

ForHackernews wrote: post #132

HarryHirsch wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you expect a corporate job to give a shit about you? Why would I expect the company to treat me decently? Why do I expect the company to treat me decently? It's because people do not only have rights, they have duties towards their fellow man, that's why! This is a long-standing idea in German political thought - it's called Sozialpflichtigkeit des Eigentums , and it made its way into both the Weimar and pr…

> they have duties towards their fellow man, that's why! That's exactly what he's saying. It's a company, not a person. You are not its "fellow man"--because it's not a man. It's a legal structure that exists to generate profit.

Yeah.

It's not unreasonable to expect your boss to treat you decently, at least if you treat her decently. She's a person, after all.

But the corporation as a whole? The corporation is a system. It responds to the environment around it. If it doesn't make the right response (as in one that maximizes its chance of survival), it is replaced by other corporations that do. That right response may be at odds with your interests as a person.

You, your boss, your boss's boss, and all your coworkers are part of that system. If they don't take the "right" action (as in, the one that maximizes their chance of survival within the organization), they will be replaced by others who do. If you feel you've been mistreated by this, your only option is to look for a different place in that system where you will be happier.

It's a two-way street. It's not just that people should refrain from treating you poorly, it's also that you shouldn't put yourself in a position where you will be treated poorly.

Re: Get Shit Done: The Worst Startup Culture

#144

Post by zeroonetwothree » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 8:34 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #104

AsymetricCom wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"That's life" what a load... no, that's a corporate job which doesn't give a shit about you. It's not really life. The only reason people put up with it is because they're told "that's life" or "that's just how it is." when that's meaningless bullshit.

Why would you expect a corporate job to give a shit about you? It's not a person (regardless of what the Supreme Court says...), it doesn't have feelings. Your parents love you unconditionally. If you want anyone else to care about you, you have to make it happen through your actions.

Corporations don't make decisions, people do. In most jobs the people you work with and work for DO care about you.

Re: Get Shit Done: The Worst Startup Culture

#145

Post by dmitrygr » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 8:43 PM UTC

These sorts of generalizations do not end well. For example, if you really think that "There aren’t people who are A players and C players. Just people who are performing at an A level and at a C level." then fire your entire recruiting department and hire anyone who walks in through the door. After all, there are no bad people, only those who perform badly right? So if those strangers who walk in do not do well, it is the fault of your environment and management, right?

Re: Get Shit Done: The Worst Startup Culture

#146

Post by pekk » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 9:04 PM UTC

walshemj wrote: post #78

UK-AL wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but it can quite easily end up disaster. When you get a new job, what is the first thing they ask for? References.

That is why companys tend to give brief factual references so that some manger doesn't go off on one and land the company with a big lawsuit.

Except if they don't. It's not at all likely that whatever they say will get back to the candidate, let alone in a legally actionable form.

Re: Get Shit Done: The Worst Startup Culture

#147

Post by ghobs91 » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 9:04 PM UTC

I won't call what we're in a "bubble", but the culture seems to be going in the direction of mass producing startups, and this is the result. I see many startups popping up that seem to be creating a product just for the sake of creating a product, with no real long term goals.

Some VCs seem to be encouraging it, throwing millions at redundant social network apps that do things like "Gamify brushing your teeth!".

The tech industry has an immense ability to "make the world suck less" as Alexis Ohanian puts it, and it's important that we focus on that.

Re: Get Shit Done: The Worst Startup Culture

#148

Post by Spooky23 » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 9:05 PM UTC

It's like anything else, if taken to an extreme, you can make anything bad.

The inspiration of "get shit done" are the bureaucratic nightmare environments where the mundane and irrelevant are debated for weeks, months or years, and many people make careers out of coming up with excuses why things cannot, should not, or will not get done.

Some not-so-good managers with poor leadership ability turn this into a power trip. I'll tell people to "shut up and get shit done" when I sit through a meeting that's nothing about debating things that aren't important, or just travelling down rabbit holes with no way out. And I don't deliver that message in an offensive or nasty way.

Re: Get Shit Done: The Worst Startup Culture

#149

Post by xux » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 9:06 PM UTC

prostoalex wrote: post #139

smacktoward wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WordPress' inability to stand up to even moderate levels of traffic is well known enough at this point that the product really should come with some kind of caching solution built in, IMO. Yes, there are caching plugins, but the users who need them the most are also the ones least likely to know they need them.

> users who need them the most are also the ones least likely to know they need them Why? Do people with least technical knowledge just happen to build Wordpress-based sites attracting billions of eyeballs?

No, but they're the most vulnerable when a random article on their site gets attention (like this HN post).

Re: Get Shit Done: The Worst Startup Culture

#150

Post by d0m » Mon, Nov 04, 2013, 9:15 PM UTC

Get Shit Done mentality !== lacking respects to your employees and colleagues.

It's more akin to "It's better to try new things and get some wrongs, than try to make it perfect and wait forever. It's a culture that understands that it's better to fail and learn then to masturbate on holy grail ideas.

The OP example of saying "Lose weight" or "Catch the ball" isn't accurate. The Get Shit Done mentality is more a like to tell a fat person "Just start running and do your best, don't wait for the holy grail of perfect equipment. Or, to the "Catch the ball", it's more akin to "Just go with a friend and throw the ball together". Don't worry about the best possible techniques and arm positiosn for now, just get started and you'll learn.

The fact that people use the Get Shit Done excuses when someone is obviously already working their ass of and having lots on their shoulders is a whole different story. That's just non-respect.