Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Visual Studio 2013 released to web

blogs.msdn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

141–150 of 162 posts

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#141

Post by marssaxman »

bengoodger wrote: post #131
nso wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the argument for keeping it all in the same solution?

It's a single product, composed of multiple projects/targets building different dlls/executables. That was my understanding of the point of a "solution" (vs the old days of VC6 when there were only projects and workspaces). Anyway, it used to work back in the days when most of Chrome's code came from WebKit. Now we're many times bigger. It's clear MSVS' project UI is not intended for building projects of this scale.…

I have no idea what the Windows or Office people do, but the Visual Studio group certainly does build their own software in VS. (Or did as of mid 2009 when I quit, anyway.) It was not a particularly pleasant experience!

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#142

Post by darrenkopp »

bengoodger wrote: post #106
727374 wrote: post #95

This rant has been brewing for many years... Everything's been downhill since VS6. I'm only joking, but seriously, does anyone remember how lightning fast VS6 was? That was over 15 years ago with much slower computers. I guess application 'snappiness' has not been a priority for the Visual Studio decision makers. I've used VS since the late 90s (writing node.js in ST2 now) and honestly appreciate the hard work and co…

Chromium is an extreme case of this. When we started we wanted to live the VS way of life (IDE tools and the like), so we had a Chrome.sln and various projects. Eventually it became too much. It would take minutes to load the sln, and woe to you if you synced your source tree while msvs was open, as you'd receive a neverending slew of modal prompts asking you to reload each of hundreds of projects. I think we still h…

How many projects does chromium have? I typically work in a solution w/ about 175 projects and it only takes about 10 seconds to load up for me on 2012.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#143

Post by taspeotis »

nightski wrote: post #102
727374 wrote: post #95

This rant has been brewing for many years... Everything's been downhill since VS6. I'm only joking, but seriously, does anyone remember how lightning fast VS6 was? That was over 15 years ago with much slower computers. I guess application 'snappiness' has not been a priority for the Visual Studio decision makers. I've used VS since the late 90s (writing node.js in ST2 now) and honestly appreciate the hard work and co…

I disagree heavily. Stock VS is very fast. However it does slow down significantly when using a plugin like ReSharper. But for me in the end it is worth it. Show me any text editor or IDE that provides the same number and quality of productivity enhancing features as ReSharper that isn't as slow or slower.

R# 8.0.0 had a bug where it would crash VS from time-to-time. I ran `devenv /safemode` to load VS without any third party stuff in an attempt to identify the problem and my god, it was fast.

I have a 28 project solution, and with R# the IDE is still plenty fast but every so often I think about just how fast VS was without plugins.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#144

Post by taspeotis »

kossmoboleat wrote: post #3
scrabble wrote: post #2

I'm still using VS 2010 at work. Can't seem to make a compelling case to upgrade for the cost, and it's just getting more frustrating. VS 2013 is looking like a really great product, especially in comparison to VS 2010.

VS 2008 here, somebody apparently tested 2012 but nothing came out of it with people fearing that a different C++ compiler will break everything...

I use VS2008 for C++ and VS2012 for .NET. I upgraded our C++ projects to VS2012 as a proof-of-concept and build times went from 5 minutes to 15.

Our projects aren't particularly great, virtually everything is in stdafx.h directly or indirectly and small changes results in rebuilding. The increase in build time would have hurt us.

VS2013 is a bit faster (~10 minutes, last time I checked) but still a bit of a hit. Allegedly this is due to the extra time parsing the C++11 language bits.

I don't think this is a huge deal (our code should be better), rather something to bear in mind.

Also, if you recreate your project instead of upgrading it you'll end up with a default instruction set of SSE2 (instead of SSE) and your exe will suddenly not run on Athlon XP-era chips.

Upgrading is not something to be done lightly.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#145

Post by taspeotis »

jbigelow76 wrote: post #70
anton_gogolev wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not necessarily "monkeys", but, disturbingly, Microsoft developer tools are becoming more and more oriented towards "wizard-and-designer-clickety-clickery" type development. There are a few exceptions to this rule (think EF Code-First), but that's a drop in the ocean.

>Microsoft developer tools are becoming more and more oriented towards "wizard-and-designer-clickety-clickery" type development. Weird, I have the exact opposite impression. It seems like forever ago that VS was touting things like drag and drop design or wizardy stuff.

Yeah, I'm so spoilt with all those wizards VS gives me for editing MSBuild targets...

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#146

Post by taspeotis »

rossy wrote: post #130

Is it available on DreamSpark yet? There's a link to DreamSpark on the download page, but it takes you to the RC, which has been out for a while.

There's no link to DreamSpark on the download page [1]

[1] http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/eng#downloads

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#148

Post by taspeotis »

gwjp wrote: post #22

If you need to justify upgrades I would recommend measuring build speed savings in teams - vs 2012 & vs 2013 build faster than 2010 in my findings.

Anecdote: for one C++ solution I work on (two projects, 300k SLOC)

VS2008: 5 min

VS2012: 15 min

VS2013 Preview: 10 min

I use VS2012 and I'm about to use VS2013 for .NET development, but our C++ project is stuck in VS2008.

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#149

Post by [deleted] »

euroclydon wrote: post #38
coffeeaddicted wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gave it a shot for a day recently but found it way harder to use than InstallShield or NSIS. Part of it was probably the broken documentation where half the links just ended in nirvana. But I gave up when I learned you really have to add each single file one-by-one and the documentation even defended this as a feature.

You can use this Wix tool or command called Heat, which will automate the adding (and creating GUIDs) for a bunch of files. Really it's the underlying MSI target that's so painful, especially when you get into versioning. The OS wants to have detailed information on every file that is part of your installation. I think this is primarily for uninstallation purposes, but also for upgrades and who know what else. If I c…

[deleted]

Re: Visual Studio 2013 released to web

#150

Post by pjmlp »

Touche wrote: post #87
apaprocki wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From their TypeScript blog post re: path to 1.0: "There are now dozens of large applications written by teams in Microsoft, including Bing, Xbox, TFS, So.cl, as well as in projects such as Adobe Digital Publishing Suite for Windows 8.1, Zud.io, Away3D, and Turbulenz." I think they've been pretty serious about it from the start due to the design decisions in Metro.

That's pretty impressive. Why isn't Google releasing info about all of their projects that are using Dart?

Because there isn't any? :)
Post reply on HN