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10x Engineer

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Re: 10x Engineer

#141
post #102
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This resonated with me. If the programming tasks are somewhat mechanical/procedural, I am not sure that an exceptional engineer can create 10x as much value as a quite good one. I've never seen it. What I've seen several times are engineers that are able to tackle problems that require so much creativity or skill that giving them to a less qualified engineer would most likely be a waste of everyone's time. In instanc…

I've worked at a lot of places and I clearly see it. It isn't very hard being a "10x" engineer if you look at the average programmer profile : Arrive at 9:30, start out with 30 minutes at the coffee machine. They get mad if you discuss work at this point, or god forbid, talk about interesting algorithms or the like. They expect to be told exactly what to do, or they won't even sit down. If you don't give them an exac…

It sounds like he's reasonable (skill wise ... totally unprofessional though). He also probably has a shit team, and shit management. Shit conditions make people behave less professionally (though he sounds worse than most).

Does he have any chance of being promoted, for not being a complete moron? Or do you promote morons into lead roles, so they can hire even bigger morons, and make moronic decisions?

If he's not going to get promoted, then he's got no reason to not just dick around, and behave like an asshole. Yes, he's probably hurting his chances of promotion (and might risk getting fired), but he probably had no hope anyway (since there's no way you could afford to lose him by kicking him upstairs). And what are you going to do? Fire the only guy who can actually solve problems?

Re: 10x Engineer

#142
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've worked at a lot of places and I clearly see it. It isn't very hard being a "10x" engineer if you look at the average programmer profile : Arrive at 9:30, start out with 30 minutes at the coffee machine. They get mad if you discuss work at this point, or god forbid, talk about interesting algorithms or the like. They expect to be told exactly what to do, or they won't even sit down. If you don't give them an exac…

In my humble opinion the guy is a great engineer who is bored (by lack of challenging projects) and discouraged (by less than stellar teammates). It is rather easy to check though - you should forget about time spent on work and need to compare the outcome, i.e. result, of this guy vs every other engineer on the team. If the check above shows that this guy is better than everybody else, than this: >> Alarmingly often…

Agreed. This is a management problem. It is astonishing that here on HN someone could be castigated for spending more time thinking than typing.

Re: 10x Engineer

#143
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel obliged to toss in Joel's commentary... http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/HighNotes.html His commentary about "hitting the high notes" was new to me. It isn't just that 10x people are faster and make less mistakes, they also can do things that others can't. This doesn't mean that you have to ignore culture, and tolerate bad behavior. But it does mean that in software it is worth the effort and cost to cha…

Question: how many 10x engineers want to work on a bug tracking tool? Is it likely Joel has met many of these guys, or is he just telling the audience what it wants to hear for some more page views?

He was the Product Manager for Excel during his tenure at Microsoft, so it's quite plausible he knows a few.

Re: 10x Engineer

#144
My biggest problem with 10x is that it commonly misunderstood. The mythical man month (MMM) book explained, an average developer is 3x the worst. the best is 3x an average. So the dynamic range is 9x, but it isn't a math so who cares. And if you are an normal developer with a friend who 3x faster, it is a career guy in a company you would not touch with a long stick, that makes you average and your friend 10xer. This misunderstanding makes people say 10xers are rare. They are not. People who are 10x better than you are rare.

I am not that person. I am an average guy. I meet devs 3x my inferior, and 3x my superior. So I do think 10x range that MMM talks about is possible.

My second problem with the article is unit of measurement question. It is very clear what it is. A time to completion of a well defined task by an individual developer, with predetermined level of quality of the result. The problem is in the measurement. To measure you have to waste resources giving same task to many. And quality measurements are imprecise. MMM book was all about the time to completion. Obviously nobody counts lines of code. Why even bringing it up?

While I think 9x range is possible, I have never seen it in real life medium size teams. (I am a short term projects freelancer, so I see two companies a year over last 18 years) The reason being, my theory goes, a contextual one. Start-ups ship buggy code fast. A fab automation company might test a released code for a year before shipping. I believe it isn't the issue of A players hiring A players and B players hiring C players. It's just the goals differ. I was faster than most at a certain client of mine, but my code was less reliable. That was fine for a specific task I was hired for, but not for most what they do.

My third problem is that the article tries to fight the notion of importance of hiring 10xers. In many cases individual performance meters less. Imperfectly studied as it might be, 10x performance measurability beats other metrics of what makes a good developer, and a good employee. How do you measure ability to communicate, motivational power, leadership, and plain good taste? So for established companies 10x hiring is not as critical. And yet, I can clearly see why start-ups are focused on 10xers (ninjas etc). In start-ups individual devs have more autonomy, by design. Winner-takes-most aspect requires short time to market. Delivery times matter much more then quality. That being the case, hiring an obnoxious jerk who codes like hell makes clear if perhaps a temporary benefit.

So if you agree that for a startup time to market is a key, and individual developer relative importance is high, a logical conclusion is makes sense to search for (and overpay) the best. Just like it makes sense to fire 10xers once startup gets traction and replace with normally paid, normally performing guys that function great as a team.

Re: 10x Engineer

#145
post #96
post #25

Even if the 10x engineer were to exist, assuming a normal distribution, they would be extremely rare and highly sought after. To optimise your business around hiring such a precious unicorn would seem like a very foolhardy strategy. For one, simple probability suggests that you probably won't find one. And if you were to find one, could you be certain that it were a real unicorn rather than a horse with a plastic con…

May not be normally distributed, but follow a power law (fatter tail)

10x was originally (man month book) the distance between extremes, not between the average and one extreme.

Re: 10x Engineer

#146
I don't think the author is saying that there's no difference between productivity between engineers, it's exactly the opposite, there are so many differences and nuances that it's almost impossible to measure all of them. Your mood, chair, coworkers, boss, temperature, programming language, editor, task, etc. all have some influence over your productivity. You can't say "all things equal" because things are not equal in the real world. That's not to say that performance measure is hopeless but that it's as complicated as weather forecast: you have a huge ammount of variables.

Re: 10x Engineer

#147
Steps to become 10x engineer:

1. Be one of the first in the project.

2. Make project messy (for example, by practicing narcissistic design [1]).

3. Don't do any kind of mentoring for newcomers, don't write any docs.

4. Be an asshole to kill newcomers' confidence.

5. When all other founding engineers leave, you will be 10x even by fair metrics.

[1] https://github.com/stuarthalloway/presentations/wiki/Narciss...

Re: 10x Engineer

#148
It's strange that she criticizes the research basis for the 10x claim, and yet she's basing her claims about burnout and even alcoholism and drugs on a couple of tweets she received? What happened to source criticism?

Re: 10x Engineer

#149

The 10x is a huge simplification, but it doesn't make it any less true. Obviously there's a huge range. I'd go so far as to say there are 100x engineers -- but it's not that they personally achieve 100x more than another programmer sitting in front of the computer. It's that they have the vision and talent to set a project up the right way from the start, so that the normal programmers can be productive. They're the…

Even the 100x is a simplification, of course. One example (out of an infinite set of them) would be if you need a software system that deals with massive amounts of signal processing on a power constrained real-time DSP chip. There are lots of people out there who are "Senior Software Engineers" at whatever company they work at currently (because they can create website solutions by stacking existing JavaScript frame…

but the criteria to which you ascribe to is one of education and training.

A GP is certainly not a neurosurgeon, and therefore cannot possibly do the same job. Ditto with embedded programming vs a "front-end" developer.

But, if you consider only embedded programmers, would there be a 100x programmer out there?

Re: 10x Engineer

#150
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the way Mike Church put it in a Quora answer ( http://qr.ae/NHgRJ ): employees are either multipliers, adders (most common), subtracters, or dividers (fire immediately). Whether multipliers are 5x or 10x more productive is a matter of nebulous metrics, but there are obvious standouts whose presence brings a very nonlinear increase in value to the team.

The four-types classification reminds me of a semi-famous saying by a German general, Kurt von Hammerstein-Equord ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_von_Hammerstein-Equord ): I divide my officers into four groups. There are clever, diligent, stupid, and lazy officers. Usually two characteristics are combined. Some are clever and diligent -- their place is the General Staff. The next lot are stupid and lazy -- they m…

hah, for the "stupid and diligent" programmer, i imagine someone who copy+paste a million lines of if statements, or write, ala http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Laborious-Transitions.aspx
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