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Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

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Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#141

Post by vidarh »

etchalon wrote: post #116
prawn wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He didn't want to let his laptop out of his sight. I'd behave the same way given how important my work/data is to me.

Which is completely reasonable. But the fact their guidelines require his bag to be cleared before he could have it back does not mean he was "detained". There are some pretty goddamn good reasons why the bag of a dude who tests positive for explosives has to be cleared before he's given it and allowed to run around an airport full of people.

> There are some pretty goddamn good reasons why the bag of a dude who tests positive for explosives has to be cleared before he's given it and allowed to run around an airport full of people.

If so, there are some pretty good reason why, if they consider that threat even remotely real, they should clear the area.

A good indication that the actual terrorist threat is absolutely vanishingly small: If there were lots of terrorists around, one of the easiest targets these days that'd maximize the amount of terror, is airport security screening areas. If they get through, they could defuse the bomb and blow it up on a plane instead, if not, they could let it go off on a timer and take out both a lot of passengers and a lot of security people.

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#142

Post by einhverfr »

Svip wrote: post #92
beloch wrote: post #76

"Mr. Mukerjee contends he asked to leave the screening area and return to the pre-security section of the terminal, with the intention of simply stepping back in line and going through screening again, but was not allowed. This is absolutely correct, at this time he was in limbo, he was not being detained, but he could not leave. A person cannot simply leave the security area of any airport once they are on the airsi…

But that's like saying, every time you are going through security in any airport, you are detained, because - you could not - if you so wanted, simply go back through security again. But you sort of opt-in for this when you fly; you know you are going to go through security and they won't let you leave unless you are cleared. Edit: etchalon said it better.

>But that's like saying, every time you are going through security in any airport, you are detained, because - you could not - if you so wanted, simply go back through security again

I am not a lawyer but I think that the line drawn at detention is whether one is effectively told, under the color of law, that one is not free to go. By this standard, I think it is pretty clear that everyone is briefly detained when going through airport security, and that all bags are briefly seized.

If this isn't a detention or a seizure, then you are free not to put your bags on the conveyor and walk back out and the most they can do is say "you can't go further in." But if there are threats of fines, etc. then it is a detention.

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#143

Post by Amadou »

greendata wrote: post #135
ck2 wrote: post #4

Sorry I am still taking his side. This writeup is not only just nit-picking his story - it's using the TSA as witness against itself. I am most certainly not going to the take TSA's word for what happened. That would be like taking the NSA's word to congress for example. What do you think happens by lesser agencies on non-sworn testimony when they see what their big-brother can get away with? And the "behavior detect…

This is one of the major problems with unregulated and unsupervised NSA activities (and other agencies). We've seen them blatantly lie about their actions, to the public and to congress. They've lied under oath without any repercussions. I don't know if I can believe any official reports. They say the FBI wasn't involved, and I believe them but "they" have proved unreliable in the past. This is the fertile soil for c…

This is one of the major problems with unregulated and unsupervised NSA activities (and other agencies). We've seen them blatantly lie about their actions, to the public and to congress.

I'd like to point out that the TSA's shining example of the effectiveness of their behavior-detection officers has itself turned out to be a sham.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/TSA-exaggerates-claims-abou...

Man said to have 'explosives' in luggage actually had none, FBI lab report found

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#144

Post by mdasen »

I don't mean to be too meta, but did anyone else notice this article dropping from #1 to #19 in a matter of minutes? It feels like one of the powers that be is trying to censor the article. I know that the ranking algorithm isn't directly tied to points and time, but there's an article an hour older with only 31 points (vs over 130) that's in position 5: http://i.imgur.com/RBLM2K7.png.

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#146

Post by vidarh »

reso wrote: post #29

Airport security is frequently humiliating. I myself have been nearly reduced to tears just by customs agents when crossing the border on business. However, this man set off a bomb detector. He set of the machine that detects bombs, repeatedly. After that event, nothing Mr. Mukerjee reported is particularly surprising, and I would expect to have a similar experience if I set off the same detector. I don't believe his…

No, he set off a machine that detects a wide range of chemicals, some of which may be used to manufacture bombs. That's important to keep in mind: This staff needs to be able to handle false positives on a regular basis.

If they treat people like shit, it's a serious problem, as the vast majority of people who sets off these detectors will be entirely innocent, and will be frustrated and/or scared at being singled out and detained.

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#147

Post by [deleted] »

etchalon wrote: post #106
etchalon wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flying is not even remotely a right. Any airline, any airpot, any business period can refuse to provide you service for any non-protected reason (race, gender, etc.).

Ah, yes, the downvote. For pointing out the actual, you know, law.

[deleted]

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#148

Post by moocowduckquack »

unreal37 wrote: post #47
tokenadult wrote: post #13

This is gripping reading for me, because "Mr. Mukerjee" is someone I know by first name, indeed nickname, even though I have never met him. (He was my son's roommate for most of the last year, and was the crucial connection for my son getting his job in New York City.) I appreciate seeing someone else's perspective on the incident that has appalled all my Facebook friends who have seen Mr. Mukerjee's own account http…

I imagine 100 years ago, before terrorism, before the TSA, before the NSA snooped on our phone calls or Hacker News posts, before all of this... I imagine there was a guy who wanted to do something, got stopped by police for a couple of questions, and got agitated by the hassle and it turned into something bigger. Now 100 years ago, that guy couldn't write a blog post about it and get worldwide attention. But then ag…

I imagine 100 years ago, before terrorism,

Please read some history.

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#149

Post by throwaway_yy2Di »

etchalon wrote: post #105

I'm glad to see this posted, if only to provide another perspective. What's most interesting to me is this line: "However on any given day, the TSA and Port Authority Police at JFK interact with passengers departing on non-stop flights to and from Dubai, Doha, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait City, Lagos, Istanbul, Jeddah, Riyadh, Casablanca, Amman, Riga and Tashkent." Mukerjee’s entire account, and virality, is predicated upon imp…

That line also interested me: why did the the author seemingly think Riga (Latvia) is in the Islamic world?

(Possible answer: JFK-Riga is operated by an Uzbek airline. Which is a question of its own.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_F._Kennedy_International_...

Re: Did The TSA and JetBlue Deny Travel For Looking Muslim During Ramadan? No

#150

Post by einhverfr »

arjie wrote: post #82

Very often, on social networking sites, we hear the pieces of contradictory advice "don't talk to the police", "be polite and considerate to the police", and "assert your rights". These are pair-wise contradictory: 1. Don't talk to the police: You are being impolite, and you will be unable to assert your rights. 2. Be polite: Obviously violates "don't talk..." but also if you say, even politely, that you refuse certa…

One can be respectful and still refuse,

"Officer, I know you are just doing your job, but I don't consent to searches."

Or even to the TSA,

"I believe my person is seized and detained. You may search me and let me fly, but just be aware I am not consenting to it."

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