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Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

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Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#141

Post by rtkwe »

mistermann wrote: post #135
danso wrote: post #129

Can't resist posting this anecdote from Atul Gawande's (best known for his New Yorker medical pieces, such as the one about checklists) book, Better: A Surgeon's Notes on Performance...at the end, he describes spending some time in India as a visiting surgeon to see how innovation was possible in comparatively squalid circumstances. The Nanded hospital he describes below serves 1,400 villages, about 2.3 million peopl…

The same innovation would result in a massive lawsuit in the US would it not (if the first few attempts failed)?

Depends on how effective the legal department was on their medical consent forms. Also if the other surgery had a proven record of being very deadly there might be some wiggle room with less deadly alternatives. It would be a very precarious position for the hospital/surgeon though.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#142

Post by riahi »

pravda wrote: post #39
sdoering wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would they? Or would the poor middle class people not being able to afford cancer-treatment/heard surgery just have a considerably lower life-expectancy? I am not sure, so I really would love to see the numbers/facts supporting your statement. Would love to learn of this magic fact. [cynicism end] [Edit]: Typo [Edit 2:] In Germany, with full health-insurance the cost for a Cardiopulmonary bypass are round about 30k €…

First of all, I am sure the 106K figure is a phony 'list price' figure and not reflective of how much is actually paid. Second of all, you ignore the incredible sums of money taken from the 'poor middle class' and handed over to the health industrial complex. For most of this country's history [the USA], there was no such thing as health insurance. The poor got charity care and the middle class were able to pay. Why…

Your suspicion is correct. It is the price charged to Medicare. Medicare only reimburses $26,898.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#143

Post by [deleted] »

mistermann wrote: post #135
danso wrote: post #129

Can't resist posting this anecdote from Atul Gawande's (best known for his New Yorker medical pieces, such as the one about checklists) book, Better: A Surgeon's Notes on Performance...at the end, he describes spending some time in India as a visiting surgeon to see how innovation was possible in comparatively squalid circumstances. The Nanded hospital he describes below serves 1,400 villages, about 2.3 million peopl…

The same innovation would result in a massive lawsuit in the US would it not (if the first few attempts failed)?

[deleted]

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#144

Post by IvyMike »

DanBC wrote: post #82

People have mentioned the cost of MRI scans in the US. How much would it cost to buy a bunch of scanners (full body, and bucket-type for arms and legs) and employ technicians to do the scanning and offer this as a service to hospitals? You could have technicians working on shifts to have out-of-hours scanning. The scans are provided in electronic format to the patient and to the doctors specified by the patient. The…

That's not too far from the way things worked when I got my MRI. Type "medical imaging" and your town's name to find local storefront MRI shops.

The interpretation of the scan is still the cost bottleneck. It's a specialized skill, and is not something your doctor wants to do own their own.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#145

Post by stonemetal »

acchow wrote: post #56
kamaal wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>You don't see this kind of innovation in the American health system because it has been engineered with greed in mind right from the start. As an Indian, I can tell you people here think the same about our health care system. The Doctor in discussion here, Dr Devi Shetty is a sort of a local hero here in Bangalore. And who knows in some years he might as well be a national hero. Its basically because he seems to br…

> You just feel its cheaper as $1 = 60 rupees. There you get a straight 60x value of your money. That is what it is at the end of the day. I find the vast majority of people are tripped up by currency conversion, but I'm surprised to find this on HN. In Japan $1 = 100 yen, but certainly I don't feel I have 100x in buying power. A bowl of ramen will cost me $8 in SF; an equivalent bowl will cost me 800 JPY in tokyo. L…

In Japan $1 = 100 yen Is the Yen equivalent to the dollar though?(are there fractional yen cents and that kind of thing) I guess since the exchange rate has been around that for as long as I have been alive, I have always thought of it as 1 Yen = 1 penny.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#146

Post by Gatsky »

mistermann wrote: post #135
danso wrote: post #129

Can't resist posting this anecdote from Atul Gawande's (best known for his New Yorker medical pieces, such as the one about checklists) book, Better: A Surgeon's Notes on Performance...at the end, he describes spending some time in India as a visiting surgeon to see how innovation was possible in comparatively squalid circumstances. The Nanded hospital he describes below serves 1,400 villages, about 2.3 million peopl…

The same innovation would result in a massive lawsuit in the US would it not (if the first few attempts failed)?

No. There is a process that occurs when piloting a new surgical technique. This often involves animal models initially, eg inducing duodenal perforation in pigs and trying the surgery there. Then it might be practiced on human cadavers to work out more of the technical aspects. Then a feasibility study is performed on a small number of patients using a trial protocol ie. patients have to opt in after giving informed consent. As you can imagine, for sick patients coming in during the middle of the night, this can be tricky. Then if it seems feasible and successful, and you think that there is reasonable doubt that the new procedure could be better than the old (equipoise), you do a randomised trial.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#147

Post by larrywright »

This is over 94,000 Rupees. That is a huge amount of money in India. I'm not sure most people realize the cost of living difference between the two countries.

Case in point: I was in India (Chennai) for a week on business a couple of months ago. During that time (M-F), I had a driver who was dedicated to me. He took me to the office and back, and took me anywhere else I wanted to go. This wasn't a taxi service, he had nobody else to shuttle around. When I was working, he just waited around for me to call. The cost for all of this? US $25, for the entire week. That's what I paid the car service, so he's getting some amount less than that.

All this to say: These sorts of comparisons are not as dramatic as they seem.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#148

Post by joseflavio »

I believe that the high medical costs are exactly the result of Free market in the long run. Entities will always unite to get stronger, control the market and to do so they will support little by little laws that allow this. Just my 2c, but if you don't keep your laws and democratic institutions distant from the big money... the free market will transform in a legal monopoly.

Re: Heart Surgery in India for $1,583 Costs $106,385 in U.S.

#149

Post by Spooky23 »

pliny wrote: post #12
bobdvb wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What incentive is there in the USA to reduce healthcare costs? The system is totally corrupt.

I don't know much about the American healthcare system, but wouldn't it be the same incentive when selling any product? If you sell the same quality product for cheaper, you will get more business than your competitors. That's what competition in a free market is, no?

We have a command-economy model with market-features.

It's not a free market, because by law, the Federal government gets the best deal. And they define what that best deal is (ie. price floor). Just like other price-control measures implemented in the late 60's and early 70's (the 1973 oil crisis is another good example), the results are higher costs.

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