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Firefox OS devices officially released

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Re: Firefox OS devices officially released

#141
post #118
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious about this: > Of course it can. On low-powered phones, FirefoxOS tends to outperform Android by a large margin. This means that you can have the same experience with cheaper phones. I don't want to imply you're lying or something, but is there something to support this claim? For example, I have Huawei Ascend G300 here (1)(, and apparently I can install FFOS on it. Is it going to be faster than CyanogenMo…

> I don't want to imply you're lying or something, but is there something to support this claim? I can only speak from my personal experience, sorry. Maybe someone else has benchmarks to back the claim.

For the record, I tested it [1] and it was reasonably fast, about as fast as android on the same device. It felt faster than stock android but slower than highly optimized unofficial android the community worked on for about a year, which is to be expected.

The phone is pretty laggy even with that android, though, for example, it takes photo in about four seconds after you press the button.

[1]: http://www.modaco.com/topic/359564-b2g-firefox-os-for-the-hu...

Re: Firefox OS devices officially released

#142
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your argument is quite plausible. Android has indeed accumulated several APIs: ANSI C, POSIX, various Khronos APIs (OpenGL ES, OpenMAX), a subset of J2SE, and Android APIs (both Java and native, with some overlap between the two). I can accept that offering only web APIs leaves much more room for streamlining the lower layers of the stack. Maybe a future Firefox OS phone will run a new processor that was specifically…

No, they are not plausible. The whole idea of using HTML, CSS, and JavaScript as the back end technology for a low-end smartphone is nuts. Even the best HTML rendering engines are CPU and memory hogs. CSS was never designed for and is nearly impossible to hardware accelerate, and JavaScript is notoriously difficult to optimize and even the best VMs run orders 3-10x slower than native code, while the JS VM takes up mu…

I'm guilty of handwavy explanation, so I will try and get back to concrete cases.

The reviews by CNet and The Verge were accurate a long time ago – given the date, CNet's review was done with an early beta, and I have no clue about the date at which The Verge's review was done, but I suspect that the review was published long after the actual review. I have seen the speed of my phone increase considerably since then, both when I was running 1.0.x and now that I'm running 1.1.x.

If you want to know for yourself the actual performance of a FirefoxOS phone, the only way is certainly to get your hands on one. My personal experience is that, comparing with equivalently-spec'd unmodified Android phones, my FirefoxOS phone runs absolutely great. I have not attempted to compare with Cyanogen-ed phones.

> The user is locked into the Firefox browser, like Safari on iOS.

Actually, with effort, it should be possible to port WebKit/KHTML or any other rendering engine to FirefoxOS, e.g. by using Emscripten or Mandreel. Of course, this port will have to use the platform's display API (typically, Gecko's implementation of ) and the platform's VM, so the benefit might be limited. But if somebody considers this useful or fun, please, by all means, do port any other browser to FirefoxOS, we will be glad to help you.

That's not quite the answer you would get from Apple if you wanted to port Firefox or old-generation Opera Mobile (not Turbo) to iOS.

> So how does this phone benefit Joe User? It's an android kernel, but the user is cut off of the diverse android app ecosystem.

Several comments have already provided an answer to that question. I will try and sum up a few of them quickly:

- all your private data doesn't belong by default to some company; - the Mozilla community has proved time and time again how it is able to provide applications localized for regions/minorities that big companies simply ignore, and I expect that this will also be the case for FirefoxOS phones; - payment APIs implementations are adapted to local markets, i.e. in countries where people typically don't have a credit card, they do not have to use one if they wish to buy an application; - users are even more free from the Marketplace than on Android - I expect that this means we'll soon see numerous marketplaces specialized in local interests (e.g. Venezuelian marketplaces, Catalan marketplaces, but also a company's internal marketplace, etc.), or in application domains (e.g. Gaming, e-books, adult stuff, safe-for-kids stuff, etc.); - cheaper phones through higher-performance on entry-level hardware – recall that, in Spain, the phone is sold at 69€ including 30€ prepaid communications, without contract; - no vendor lock-in – if you change phone or if you use your desktop computer, your applications follow you; - breaking monopolies in regions in which you have the choice between a feature phone or a 600$ smartphone + contract.

I realize that people following Hacker News are no Joe Users and that they often have access to technologies that Joe User hasn't even heard about, both in terms of hardware and in terms of software (e.g. Cyanogen). But this first generation of FirefoxOS phones is not designed with them in mind. It is designed primarily for Joe "I'm ignored because my region or my language is not fashionable or rich enough" User.

Re: Firefox OS devices officially released

#143

This release prodded me to look into Firefox OS again. I have a Nexus S lying around unused, and that's one of the supported "tier two" devices. So I installed it. I really want to love it. I love Firefox, but Firefox OS is very much "not there" based on my experience. The browser is significantly worse than Firefox for Android. As far as I can tell, Sync is not available at all. Tapping the URL bar just/always puts…

> And the device experience is really strange. There's the "marketplace" but also the .. I don't know what it's called, two swipes to the left of the app launcher screen. The experience is very poor compared to Android/iOS; using familiar "apps" is really the mobile site for that service, and doesn't work as well as the Android apps I'm used to. (I.E.: Rating a movive in IMDB takes one tap to load another page, one tap to open the select box, another to pick the value, then another to submit that form. Versus one tap on Android.) > > Lots of the "real apps" from the marketplace are also immediately greyed out if you lose data. Including simple games that totally should work offline. (Though I was recently surprised by how many games refused to run without an internet connection on my Android tablet recently, also.)

You should complain with the app authors and get them to improve their mobile website and/or their manifest. This will be beneficial to everyone.

Re: Firefox OS devices officially released

#144
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, hello PommeDeTerre. Haven't we had roughly the same conversation last week on another thread? > Firefox OS will need to successfully compete against BlackBerry OS, Windows Mobile, [...] Yes, a new product needs to compete with existing products. That goes without saying. > And how exactly is it "different"? Frankly? Try it, you'll see. For me, it's different insofar as I can write a small game and self-publish it…

> Caveat: I'm a Mozillian. Oh. If your view resembles that of the most of mozillians then I think Firfox OS is already doomed. What you wrote might appeal to some developers, but it means little to users. And I am not sure how many developers are interested in platform in which users are not interested. Looks like when Blake Ross left Mozilla so did understanding the user.

I am sorry you feel that way. I have written a number of replies across this thread, some targeted towards developers, some towards users. If you do not like my developer-oriented replies, I invite you to look at my user-oriented ones.

Re: Firefox OS devices officially released

#145
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I congratulate you on being privileged, but most people can't do that. Here it costs twice that, for example.

Where is here? A Nexus 4 costs twice as much in Norway as in Canada, but so does everything else. When identical Chinese-manufactured electronics are priced differently it's usually because of import tariffs (Brazil) or vastly more generous consumer protection laws (Europe).

In Argentina, Galaxy S3 is available for 600US$ with a contract, locked.

Re: Firefox OS devices officially released

#146

I think we are "almost there" in terms of freedom of choice and usage of our mobile device. We are still dependent on the carrier - e.g. Telefonica - to have our phone running our OS of choice. Of course, we have unlocked phones, but that's another thing, another price too. I wish my experience with mobile phones were the same as with laptops: every two years or so I step into a shop and buy a low-end machine on sale…

> When I first read about Firefox OS I thought I would have the experience as described above. I would buy ANY phone, donwload the Firefox OS, install it and enjoy mobile life from a different perspective. Someone has to write the drivers AND have an incentive. [1] [1] https://autonome.wordpress.com/2013/01/15/firefox-os-devices...

The guide is here, if anybody's interested: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Firefox_OS/...
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