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Supreme Court: Natural Isolated DNA Not Patentable, Synthetic DNA Is [pdf]

supremecourt.gov

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Re: Supreme Court: Natural Isolated DNA Not Patentable, Synthetic DNA Is [pdf]

#141
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I genuinely don't understand your point. If a group of people synthesize and test many synthetic DNA sequences and then patent the useful ones, that seems fine to me. You might even call them "synthetic biologists". They have invented new things, which are not found in nature, by the process of their own skills, knowledge, and labor, and which are useful to other people. It seems perfectly reasonable that those inven…

I find the concept of patenting new biological entities rather scary and dangerous. They should not be patentable. Patent system is easily abused for many things unrelated to encouraging innovation. Therefore there is nothing reasonable in allowing these patents just because it takes time and effort to come up with synthesis method.

Unjustified fear is not a rational basis for policy.

It's not the synthesis method that is at stake here, it is the engineered biological system itself (system referring to a gene, regulatory sequence, genetic pathway, or organism). The kind of innovation involved in this kind of engineering is precisely what the patent system is designed to protect, so that it can be monetized while also disseminated. Without patents these innovations will remain trade secrets and hold back the progress of synthetic biology. Without patents private companies may not be able to justify investment required for innovation. Without patents inability to monetize inventions reduces the overall economic impact (return on investment) for public financing of life sciences, which in turn removes a powerful incentive for government financing of research.

For instance, a company finds a compound that fights cancer. The company invents a way to synthesize or purify this compound and sell it. The patent protects the inventor and allows them to recoup the investment. This is widely accepted. Now consider that company engineers an organism that can produce the compound in large bio-reactors. The modified organism - and in particular the engineered DNA sequences - are completely analogous to the chemical manufacturing process, and should be similarly protected.

Moreover, consider that the second process may remove a need to use the organic carbon precursors necessary for chemical synthesis (fossil fuels), or eliminates a toxic by-product of chemical synthesis, or is much cheaper and therefore reduces the cost of the compound, benefiting the public. These are real world consequences of synthetic biology protected by the patent system. They don't seem so scary to me.

Re: Supreme Court: Natural Isolated DNA Not Patentable, Synthetic DNA Is [pdf]

#142
post #67

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-13/the-supreme-court-s... it is not the scientists who removed the introns from the officially unpatentable original DNA sequence to make the new, patentable cDNA sequence. It is nature itself, through the magic by which pre-RNA, which includes the introns, becomes messenger RNA, which does not. The Supreme Court described this process by saying, “the pre-RNA is then naturally ‘s…

> To put it much more simply, there is nothing that a 6-year-old would consider “invented” about the patentable cDNA.

That's the point. Patent law is very suitable for processes that cost millions to develop, but in pharmaceutics the big cost factor isn't process development, it is the discovery. What Myriad did is identify the gene, that is where the cost was sunk that they somehow have to recover.

But since you can patent only things, and not intellectual property, the Supreme Court had to resort to all kinds of legal hacks of the sort that judges hate to see applied in their courtroom.

Re: Supreme Court: Natural Isolated DNA Not Patentable, Synthetic DNA Is [pdf]

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't just assert that it exists. You'd have to show that it exists.

That should be trivial, if you had a large sample and money for sequencing. The consensus in the listservs I'm on is that cDNA patentability will fall next because of these and other inconsistencies (cDNA existing in nature, being a non-natural transformation).

That hinges on the definition of non-natural. Is a nuclear reactor non-natural? Are you sure? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_nuclear_fission_reactor

Just because you're using components that exist in nature that may come together and occasionally produce the result you want - when a human hand enters the picture to do it deliberately and get a controlled result, to gain a certain end, that's qualifies it as non-natural.

Re: Supreme Court: Natural Isolated DNA Not Patentable, Synthetic DNA Is [pdf]

#144
post #67

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-06-13/the-supreme-court-s... it is not the scientists who removed the introns from the officially unpatentable original DNA sequence to make the new, patentable cDNA sequence. It is nature itself, through the magic by which pre-RNA, which includes the introns, becomes messenger RNA, which does not. The Supreme Court described this process by saying, “the pre-RNA is then naturally ‘s…

> To put it much more simply, there is nothing that a 6-year-old would consider “invented” about the patentable cDNA. That's the point. Patent law is very suitable for processes that cost millions to develop, but in pharmaceutics the big cost factor isn't process development, it is the discovery. What Myriad did is identify the gene, that is where the cost was sunk that they somehow have to recover. But since you can…

Saying that Myriad was the first to discover BRCA1 is somewhat disingenuous; other labs did it independently at roughly the same time. Moreover, deciding when a gene was "discovered" is a minefield. What constitues discovery? Identification of a mutant? Cloning the gene? Sequencing it? There are many steps to this process.

Re: Supreme Court: Natural Isolated DNA Not Patentable, Synthetic DNA Is [pdf]

#145

While its not a complete win I think this is an ok compromise. Clearly Myriad is going to be impacted as other people come up with ways to test for the BRCA1 and BRCA2 genes without infringing on their process, and it will make screening for these genes much less expensive. But it leaves open the question of "infringement" on cDNA when you aren't party to the creation. Specifically the guys who have GMO Wheat growing…

This should give Myriad a new incentive to develop less expensive tests for this gene. They should already have a head start.

cDNA synthesis is very cheap, a few cents per base. They do like everyone else: charge whatever the market will bear, and, quite frankly, in healthcare this isn't something anyone should be comfortable with.

Re: Supreme Court: Natural Isolated DNA Not Patentable, Synthetic DNA Is [pdf]

#146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To put it much more simply, there is nothing that a 6-year-old would consider “invented” about the patentable cDNA. That's the point. Patent law is very suitable for processes that cost millions to develop, but in pharmaceutics the big cost factor isn't process development, it is the discovery. What Myriad did is identify the gene, that is where the cost was sunk that they somehow have to recover. But since you can…

Saying that Myriad was the first to discover BRCA1 is somewhat disingenuous; other labs did it independently at roughly the same time. Moreover, deciding when a gene was "discovered" is a minefield. What constitues discovery? Identification of a mutant? Cloning the gene? Sequencing it? There are many steps to this process.

You'd say that correlating certain mutations in the gene to increased risk of breast cancer constitutes discovery, it certainly does in the context of a clinical test for breast cancer, which is what Myriad is selling.

Re: Supreme Court: Natural Isolated DNA Not Patentable, Synthetic DNA Is [pdf]

#147
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the concept of patenting new biological entities rather scary and dangerous. They should not be patentable. Patent system is easily abused for many things unrelated to encouraging innovation. Therefore there is nothing reasonable in allowing these patents just because it takes time and effort to come up with synthesis method.

Unjustified fear is not a rational basis for policy. It's not the synthesis method that is at stake here, it is the engineered biological system itself (system referring to a gene, regulatory sequence, genetic pathway, or organism). The kind of innovation involved in this kind of engineering is precisely what the patent system is designed to protect, so that it can be monetized while also disseminated. Without patent…

In general I find the patentability of medicines a very abused practice. Pharma industry is one of the most corrupted, and especially when it comes to patents. So your example serves do disprove your point.

Re: Supreme Court: Natural Isolated DNA Not Patentable, Synthetic DNA Is [pdf]

#148
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't matter that cDNA is similar to something found in nature. The fact is that DNA complementary to the mature spliced mRNA sequences of the BRCA1/2 genes does not exist in nature.

wrong. this happens in retroviral transmission all the time.

To my knowledge, the BRCA1 mature mRNA sequence has not been shown to be reverse-transcribed during any part of the life cycle of any retrovirus.

Re: Supreme Court: Natural Isolated DNA Not Patentable, Synthetic DNA Is [pdf]

#149
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unjustified fear is not a rational basis for policy. It's not the synthesis method that is at stake here, it is the engineered biological system itself (system referring to a gene, regulatory sequence, genetic pathway, or organism). The kind of innovation involved in this kind of engineering is precisely what the patent system is designed to protect, so that it can be monetized while also disseminated. Without patent…

In general I find the patentability of medicines a very abused practice. Pharma industry is one of the most corrupted, and especially when it comes to patents. So your example serves do disprove your point.

At least I have provided clear arguments. You have continued to make assertions (such as pharma being corrupted with respect to patents) without any kind of proof or even a clear argument as to why this is the case. I suggest you consider not taking any drug developed under or protected by US patent law in protest.

Re: Supreme Court: Natural Isolated DNA Not Patentable, Synthetic DNA Is [pdf]

#150
post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In general I find the patentability of medicines a very abused practice. Pharma industry is one of the most corrupted, and especially when it comes to patents. So your example serves do disprove your point.

At least I have provided clear arguments. You have continued to make assertions (such as pharma being corrupted with respect to patents) without any kind of proof or even a clear argument as to why this is the case. I suggest you consider not taking any drug developed under or protected by US patent law in protest.

Well, many don't just consider - but simply can't take them. Because of the price, controlled by those who acquired the patent. When life saving medicine becomes a business for the sake of money - that's already bad.
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