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US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

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Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#141

Post by protomyth »

nayefc wrote: post #138
protomyth wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He does sound quite sane on how the US government should act. Too, bad they spend so much time on theater as opposed to actual risks (heart disease, cancer, public debt, etc.).

I agree, but 11,000 people dying a year sounds like an actual threat/risk to me. Your list can be modified to: heart disease, cancer, public debt, guns, etc.

The number of people killed in violent crimes by guns in the US is continuing to trend down. This is via the CDC. Why screw with that?

Second, the US government does not have to the money or constitutional authority to "fix" all things. It has a budget and income which should start to match.

11,000 people taken over the whole US is not much of a risk. If you look at the CDC stats, it is very far down on a long list.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#142

Post by hga »

protomyth wrote: post #141
nayefc wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, but 11,000 people dying a year sounds like an actual threat/risk to me. Your list can be modified to: heart disease, cancer, public debt, guns, etc.

The number of people killed in violent crimes by guns in the US is continuing to trend down. This is via the CDC. Why screw with that? Second, the US government does not have to the money or constitutional authority to "fix" all things. It has a budget and income which should start to match. 11,000 people taken over the whole US is not much of a risk. If you look at the CDC stats, it is very far down on a long list.

"Why screw with that?"

Exactly. This period of decreasing violent crime is correlated with a massive, near nationwide relaxation of gun controls that go back to the post-Civil war period. Correlation does not suggest let alone prove causation, but desiring a reversal in a trend that correlates with what in theory is your objective should give one pause.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#143

Post by jaibot »

ta25252 wrote: post #137
jaibot wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you'll still stop _most instances_ of would-be piracy - the 14-year-old kids hanging out at a park, unable to _easily_ send a movie from one smartphone to another. Not impossible - just hard enough to not bother. You can't absolutely stop 3D printing of dangerous artifacts. But you can lower the appeal by increasing penalties, requiring the party to take more steps to avoid being caught, attaching a strong social…

It's physically impossible to keep someone from barreing their car at 80mph down the wring side of the highway Not really. Government mandated speed governor in every car, limited to 55 mph.

You're right, of course.

s/physically/practically

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#144

Post by hga »

ta25252 wrote: post #139
lucian1900 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely you can appreciate that most of the world considers the American obsession with guns absurd :) Most countries have strict gun laws and the people are fine with that. Banning 3D gun models is still stupid though, especially in a country with such high gun availability.

Shooting is an Olympic sport for God's sake, but of course Americans are ignorant violent idiots.

Hey, not counting Northern Ireland, handguns are banned in enlightened Great Britain and their pistol team and aspirants to it have to practice outside of the country: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_sport#Pistol

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#145

Post by hga »

rollo_tommasi wrote: post #134
stfu wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Designing this gun was clearly an asshole move I, for one, welcome any asshole moves that make governments afraid of their citizens. DefDist's Bitcoin: 1Gb5GNxrVGMT8e9uoJ8CmamrdVz9o8fAEa ( http://defdist.org/bitcoin/ )

This is so silly. If the country ever comes to the point where only you and your 3D printed gun stand between freedom and the government's tyranny, you'll just be obliterated by a Predator drone. Advances in and proliferation of 3D guns will only endanger innocent citizens. Thinking that it's any kind of check on government power is a childish fantasy.

You really ought to read about the namesake of this gun: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP-45_Liberator

If it comes to that, it's merely a tool to get better guns.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#146

Post by smsm42 »

fnordfnordfnord wrote: post #112
smsm42 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you been to any US airport recently? These guys grab my freaking nuts and touch me in places that usually only myself and my wife are allowed to access. And you say it'd be easy to get through them a piece of a size of a large brick without them noticing? Do you know what mayhem an explosive of a similar volume could create? Something does not add up here with your theory.

Are you kidding? Airport security breaches are so commonplace that they don't always merit news coverage anymore. Here, another TSA pen-test failure. http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/03/08/us-usa-security-ai... These are just the ones we hear about, and don't include incidences of undetected contraband carried by passengers, unwittingly and intentionally.

So the argument is that since you already can bring a real bomb into the airport, creating one-shot un-concealable weapon that is useless in any practical scenario is a huge security threat requiring the government to ignore both 1st and 2nd amendment because of it? Could you expand this argument a little more, I don't see how exactly it plays out.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#147

Post by smsm42 »

aneth4 wrote: post #79
smsm42 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is not. Nobody was threatened with this, nobody will ever be threatened with this. This thing is un-concealable and unusable as a real-life weapon in any public safety scenario. If you think anybody with this prototype can threaten public safety you are badly mistaken. The idea that any time anything new happens the government should jump in and prohibit it until it is proven safe is exactly why politicians like t…

How is it not a threat to have guns that can go through metal detectors, which we use in all sorts of government and transportation locations to prevent shootings? Even if this particular prototype is bulky, clearly the technology will advance. The idea that we should only act when there is an "actual threat" when a threat is clearly on its way is absurd. Good government anticipates and prevents threats to public saf…

Bombs can already go through metal detectors. There are knives that can go through metal detectors. There are hundreds of other things that can hurt you and go through metal detectors. Many of them aren't huge and one-time use. This thing is huge and is one-time use.

>>> The idea that we should only act when there is an "actual threat" when a threat is clearly on its way is absurd.

No, it is not absurd. Actually, for regular citizen it is the law - you can apply self-defense only when actual threat is clearly on its way. How comes the government - which is much more dangerous and prone to abuse than regular citizen, and can do much more harm if mistaken - is held to a lower standard and is allowed to violate the right of citizens on imaginary "threats" completely invented out of the blue? Where this right comes from - is it from fear or from belief government agents somehow so much more trustworthy than ordinary people and would never abuse their powers?

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#148

Post by smsm42 »

rollo_tommasi wrote: post #134
stfu wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Designing this gun was clearly an asshole move I, for one, welcome any asshole moves that make governments afraid of their citizens. DefDist's Bitcoin: 1Gb5GNxrVGMT8e9uoJ8CmamrdVz9o8fAEa ( http://defdist.org/bitcoin/ )

This is so silly. If the country ever comes to the point where only you and your 3D printed gun stand between freedom and the government's tyranny, you'll just be obliterated by a Predator drone. Advances in and proliferation of 3D guns will only endanger innocent citizens. Thinking that it's any kind of check on government power is a childish fantasy.

This stupid argument is reiterated again and again and doesn't become less stupid. There are about 100 millions of gun owners in the country. Do you think any government can wage war with 100 million armed citizens, drones or not? Do you read newspapers, do you know how successful the war in any territory where the population is hostile, noncooperative and armed? Do you think US tried to find local allies in Afganistan and Iraq because they didn't think of using drones? Drones aren't some magic wand that makes you invincible, and no government can remain in place if 100 million armed people want it out, drones or not.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#149

Post by smsm42 »

hga wrote: post #142
protomyth wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of people killed in violent crimes by guns in the US is continuing to trend down. This is via the CDC. Why screw with that? Second, the US government does not have to the money or constitutional authority to "fix" all things. It has a budget and income which should start to match. 11,000 people taken over the whole US is not much of a risk. If you look at the CDC stats, it is very far down on a long list.

"Why screw with that?" Exactly. This period of decreasing violent crime is correlated with a massive, near nationwide relaxation of gun controls that go back to the post-Civil war period. Correlation does not suggest let alone prove causation, but desiring a reversal in a trend that correlates with what in theory is your objective should give one pause.

There are couple of things that suggest correlation: Chicago and DC.

Re: US Government Takes Down 3D Printed Gun Plans

#150

Post by smsm42 »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #58
nostromo wrote: post #13

"While I am as impressed as anyone with 3-D printing technology and I believe it has amazing possibilities," said California state senator Leland Yee (D-San Francisco/San Mateo), "we must ensure that it is not used for the wrong purpose with potentially deadly consequences. I plan to introduce legislation that will ensure public safety and stop the manufacturing of guns that are invisible to metal detectors and that…

Are you saying he's dumb for wanting to restrict gun fabrication , or dumb for thinking that legislation will work when the information is already on the net?

Can I have both please?
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