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Dumped by Google

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Re: Dumped by Google

#141

Post by nsns »

robomartin wrote: post #117

Seriously, why does ANYONE use anything other than Google Search and Analytics? Why do you willfully choose to expose yourself and your business to what they can do to you? From the article: "A few minutes into my Google-less existence, I realized how dependent I had become. I couldn’t finish my work or my taxes, because my notes and expenses were stored in Google Drive, and I didn’t know what else I should work on b…

This reply is becoming generic here, and has a lot of truth in it. It does ignore however Google's part in actively and quite insistently tempting users to adopt its services.

Re: Dumped by Google

#142

Post by sgift »

robomartin wrote: post #117

Seriously, why does ANYONE use anything other than Google Search and Analytics? Why do you willfully choose to expose yourself and your business to what they can do to you? From the article: "A few minutes into my Google-less existence, I realized how dependent I had become. I couldn’t finish my work or my taxes, because my notes and expenses were stored in Google Drive, and I didn’t know what else I should work on b…

This reminds of a story I've read about (big) companies and electricity: At the start of the 20th century it was typical for companies to produce their own electricity. The concerns where basically the same as they are now with Internet services: Your business depends on another company; what will you do if they close down? Or throw you out? And what about the transmission - I've heard the net is not stable? and so on. So, what did change? Trust. Electric companies invested heavily in various areas:

  - Reliability. The electric transmission net was shit at this time. Blackouts each week, sometimes each day were typical
  - Cross-transmission i.e. a shared transmission net instead of one net per provider, so you could switch without much hassle if your provider failed you
  - Better contracts to guarantee that you will get your electricity and that a company cannot dump you without notice
All of this parts worked together to convince companies that electricity was no longer something you had to do yourself, but something that could be provided by someone else. As far as I can tell Google tries to be the outsourcing address for various (all?) net related services which have been done "in house" in the past. The problem seems to be that they fail in the areas highlighted above. As long as this doesn't change many companies will be hesitant to trust Google with services they depend on. And maybe posts like the OPs (and robomartins) show that they are correct in their assessment.

Re: Dumped by Google

#143

Post by damncabbage »

drchaos wrote: post #136
kybernetyk wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you suggest a viable alternative to Google Mail? I'm feeling uncomfortable having all my mail in Google's hands but haven't found an alternative yet.

Dovecot + Roundcube hosted on a cheap VPS, with Thunderbird (on the Desktop) and K9Mail (on Android) as client works pretty well for me. Dovecot 2.2 implements several new IMAP extensions, so you can do serverside fulltext search, threading and push of incoming mail, and with some work[1] it should also be possible to sync your contacts and even a calendar with your server (I must admit though that I haven't tried th…

What do you use for spam filtering?

I've had terrible trouble with SpamAssassin in the past; can you share an effective config, and are there pre-built spam/ham databases around so you don't need to go through the entire training process?

Are you checking RBLs on a regular basis, or is an SPF record and a reputable VPS provider enough to keep you off blacklists?

Any other tips for someone wanting to try their hand with a VPS + Dovecot + Postfix setup (assuming a Linux sysadmin background)?

Re: Dumped by Google

#144

Post by pja »

OGinparadise wrote: post #104
ceph_ wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a really wild accusation to me. Is their anything to back this up besides their speculation?

That's a good point, but then there is the question of trust. 2 years ago, I would not have believed it. Now, I am not sure. Google has done many things I consider fishy and unethical so I am more likely to believe allegations against them. But the reality is that people need to start diversifying or risk: "A few minutes into my Google-less existence, I realized how dependent I had become. I couldn’t finish my work o…

Google wants people to trust the nuts of bolts of their lives to their servers, yet they cut off access to everything the moment they suspect that a user has transgressed. I can't be the only one that doesn't think this is reasonable.

At the very least, you should still have access to the Google data export for your account, even if the account has been cancelled for some reason.

Re: Dumped by Google

#145

Post by junto »

baby wrote: post #24
betterunix wrote: post #2

People have been warned about relying on web services already: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...

Alright but then how do you safely store your important data? Imagine if the same thing happened with Dropbox (if you're using it).

Try http://owncloud.org/. Run your own cloud server. Files, contacts, calendars, loads of third party integrations (email via RoundCube: http://roundcube.net/).

I'm running mine off a Synology DiskStation that sits at home. Mobile clients for Android and iOS. Sync clients for Windows, Mac and Linux (plus source code if you want to write your own): http://owncloud.org/sync-clients/

You could point OwnCloud at the same folder as Dropbox. Both monitor the same folder. Double backup.

http://www.lifehacker.com.au/2013/04/how-to-set-up-your-own-... http://jamieflarity.com/technology/owncloud-and-email/

Re: Dumped by Google

#146

Post by xlevus »

rsync wrote: post #110
imsofuture wrote: post #21

What are the best alternatives to Gmail?

Self provide your own email on your own email server. I think there's a case to be made for self-providing your own dial tone as well, given how simple and cheap that has become, but I can't push that as I haven't even done it myself...

The problem with self-hosting is the setup and maintenance, and risks that goes with it.

I'm quite happy paying for a service because when it breaks, I can reasonably expect the problem to resolve itself.

If I host my own mail, when it breaks I'm up shits creek until I fix it. Which depending on my schedule, could take a week.

Re: Dumped by Google

#147

Post by junto »

eloisant wrote: post #134
josscrowcroft wrote: post #72

"Services I'd Pay For", May 2013 Edition: 1) A hands-off, hassle-free service that connects to all your Google 'properties' and backs up everything every hour, on the hour, and allows easy importing into a selection of similar replacement services if/when the Googleplex smites me down. 2) See 1).

* Buy a Synology NAS * Buy a domain name * Setup a mail server on your NAS (you get Roundcube in 2 clicks) * Forward emails from gmail to your home email * Backup to Amazon Glacier (in a few clicks on a Synology) Now when a problem arise, just stop using GMail and use Roundcube directly.

Did you install Roundcube directly via DSM, or indirectly using the DSM Owncloud plugin?

Re: Dumped by Google

#148

Post by SEMW »

RawData wrote: post #77

I don't understand why no one has sued google over this... That would be my first reaction...

English law student here. This isn't legal advice.

Generally, in common law countries, if you're not paying Google for the services, the legal system won't help you. Since you gave no consideration for the services you got, there's no legal contract, so you can't even enforce their own terms of service against them.

(In theory, an action in tort for negligent provision of services can succeed against a provider you didn't pay - but in practice, that'd fail for a number of reasons in this situation (in England anyway)).

As soon as you're paying for services, the whole thing changes. You've suddenly got the contract law at your back, and with that comes whatever laws govern unfair terms in consumer contracts, and the supply of services to consumers, in your jurisdiction. You're in a vastly better position, legally.

Re: Dumped by Google

#149

Post by SEMW »

coldtea wrote: post #75
jamesaguilar wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should not rely on services you're not paying for and don't own for your daily work. :-/ My point isn't about the nature of the data that was stored, my point was the economic reliability of the tool being used to store it. In other words, you want the provider to have some significant incentive not to screw you if your livelihood depends on it.

> You should not rely on services you're not paying for Whereas you should rely on services you're paying for? How are they different? Terms of service even for paid services are BS anyway, and it's not like you will sue them.

They're hugely different.

Whether or not you actually will sue, if you paid for services you have the power to sue (on the contract for services). And Google knows that. That gives you leverage that puts you in a much better position to get someone at Google to pay attention to your account.

If you didn't pay for services, you can't sue. You didn't give any consideration, so there's no contract you can enforce against them. (That's for common law jurisdictions; don't know about elsewhere). They can more or less do what they like. And Google knows that, too.

(IANAL).

Re: Dumped by Google

#150

Post by [deleted] »

mokash wrote: post #139

I think we need a paid email provider, someone who's sole business is to provide email services, and maybe a calendar. Someone who you can host your own domain with and someone who's mission it is to ensure their customers have privacy, security and can rely on their services. Someone who doesn't just guarantee their services for as much as you pay for them but someone who is willing to put their ass on the line to p…

[deleted]
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