Earlier quoted context omitted.
To add to my my point, check out these two real pictures, hope you like pink bags: OriginalPony [1] - 451kB - https://dl.dropbox.com/u/139377/ThreePonies/ponyphoto2-origi... JPEGMiniPony [2] - 151kB - https://dl.dropbox.com/u/139377/ThreePonies/ponyphoto2-jpegm... Now tell me, where is the banding? (CC, source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/dreamcicle/3552305929/sizes/l/i... )
You picked the wrong input to prove your point. That image has too much noise. You need smooth gradients to get banding. The pony, the smoothest part of the image, has a lot of sensor noise (more chroma than luma but still) in the 3-6 pixel frequency range.
Don't Buy the Snake Oil of Beamr Video
141–144 of 144 posts
Re: Don't Buy the Snake Oil of Beamr Video
#142It's good to see a response from Beamr staff. Perhaps rhetorical but.... How do you feel licensing an amazing open source tool, adding a few patches you feel needed for perceptual quality in crf encodes, and then calling it your own product? Even a "patent pending" product? You've done one small bit of coding, building upon the _years_ of work that open source devs have done. You present this minorly tweaked x264 as…
> Their software scans it and takes careful note of scenes with high levels of movement, scenes with human shapes moving, scenes with human faces, scene's that match algorithms for water, grass, natural environs etc etc The funny thing is, this is the sort of thing that H.264 encoders intrinsically do. x264 has some fairly advanced algorithms in it to optimize for human visual perception (thanks DarkShikari, akupengu…
You're treating x264 like some box of black magic.
As far as the perceptual tunings go, x264 already provides the three most important knobs (aq, psy-rd, psy-trellis) that, due to their nature, can't be a "one size fit all" deal. x264 makes no attempt to guess which of those settings would fit your source best and only offer a conservative Default and a series of tunings for marginally more fine-grained control.
A hypothetical, "better" approach would be to have an amazingly intelligent first pass be done to split the movies into scenes and calculate the perceptual weights for each scene. That way, in a movie like Kill Bill, the animated, fast-action, and talking-head scenes would all be perceptually optimized, as they all need vastly differently settings. Splitting the movies into zones also open up a whole plethora of options for fine-tuning quality. Again, you can always reach these options from the command line.
(Also, x264's psy-rd is hilariously unoptimized for high-stress bitrates. I'm not sure if the purported "service" being discussed in this thread can handle those bitrates, but it's an area needing massive tweaks. x264's main role seem to be high-quality archiving, however, so this is merely a tangent.)
> Even if they managed to build a pre-analysis model that figures out decent settings to feed into x264, it would break to some extent whenever x264's code/algos are changed. That doesn't seem like a stable base to build a business on.
One could just not update, or only update the required parts. I assume reading and modifying code is already a prerequisite here.
Re: Don't Buy the Snake Oil of Beamr Video
#143Earlier quoted context omitted.
^ "you must provide your source code modifications back to x264 LLC" Very nice find, I'm ridiculously happy that that provision is in there. So then it may well be they have their own software that determines x264 settings as I outlined above.
I'm going to check with CoreCodec (the folks helping us administer x264 LLC) and see what's going on here. If they're abusing the terms of the license, we'll make sure things get fixed. If not, we'll publish all the changes they've made -- and honestly, I would be shocked if they've done anything significant besides change the program name.
I too would be rather surprised if they changed anything but the program name.
Re: Don't Buy the Snake Oil of Beamr Video
#144Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fireworks, pngquant, and png-nq have quantization algorithms that will dither a 32-bit PNG with alpha down to 8-bit palletized PNGs with alpha. The palette selection algorithms the free tools use (I haven't used Fireworks) sometimes drop important colors used in only a small section of an image, resulting in a blue power LED losing its blue color.
Yeah, technically that's lossy compression, but what I meant was lossy 32-bit PNG; that is, a preprocessing step before the prediction step which makes the result more compressible by the final DEFLATE step while having a minimal impact on quality.