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Petition to make unlocking phones legal again passes 100,000 signatures

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Re: Petition to make unlocking phones legal again passes 100,000 signatures

#141

Post by thedufer »

grkvlt wrote: post #117
gknoy wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the case for locked phones is that you can get a $600 phone for $200. Paying $200 instead of $600 is covered by the two year contract you sign with a carrier to get a subsidized phone, during which you pay them back the cost of that subsidization. If you leave early, an early-termination fee ensures that the subsidization is paid for. At the end of your two year contract, you've paid back the full cost of the phone…

Yes, and that is _NOT_ illegal. You're quite free to unlock your phone after the contract runs out, or if you pay your carrier the fees to unlock it, in the case above that would probably be the $400 dollar difference between your price and the unlocked price. I'm not sure I see the issue here - if you want the unlocked phone, then buy it and pay for a SIM only type contract, or do such things not exist in the US?

> You're quite free to unlock your phone after the contract runs out

Do you have a source on that? I can't find anything about such an exemption; I'm fairly certain it doesn't exist.

Re: Petition to make unlocking phones legal again passes 100,000 signatures

#142

Post by thedufer »

donniezazen wrote: post #92
mokus wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People don't actually own them. Of course they do. If I buy a new house or car, I don't have to pay the full price up front, but when I have finished paying for it I absolutely do own it. Subsidized phones are essentially loans. You pay for them over the course of your contract or with early termination fees, and when the contract is over you own them 100%.

They do allow you to unlock the phone after two years.

If by "they" you mean "some carriers". They are by no means required to do so, and there's no reason to believe that they will continue to do so.

Re: Petition to make unlocking phones legal again passes 100,000 signatures

#143

Post by writtles »

jlgreco wrote: post #123
ajross wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. Let's just agree to disagree on that. Your explanation is a bit too far on the "been reading a bit too much dystopian pulp" side of the spectrum. To argue that the practice of policy is cynical and easily corrupted is a truism. To say that the white house deliberately threw up a petition system to actively "neutralize" inconvenient opinions is just ridiculous, sorry. The white house staff are people just…

The less dystopic version of my interpretation is that the site is just a way of keeping people happy, rather than "neutralized". Does that seem so implausible to you? > The white house staff are people just like you and I See, that realization is what enables me to believe they would make a petition site just to keep people happy. It is something rather frequently seen in the "real world" from "normal people" (see:…

Yeah, lets just go back to the days of hitting the streets with those paper petitions, and gathering signatures at bus stops and Phish concerts! Why get the internet involved in politics at all?

Re: Petition to make unlocking phones legal again passes 100,000 signatures

#144

Post by frostmatthew »

bjustin wrote: post #94
jobu wrote: post #83

Fast forward to next week: "The White House announces a new threshold of 500,000 signatures before it will respond to online petitions." I was initially enthusiastic about these online petitions, but it doesn't seem like any of them have had an effect.

Now come on, the reason they raised the bar from 25,000 to 100,000 is to keep up with the site's increasing popularity. They could have set the bar to 100,000 at the site's launch instead of 5,000, but no petitions would have reached the threshold. As for petitions actually having results, I imagine they are the weakest form of lobbying possible. The executive branch sees them and that is all.

Instead of setting a hard number (that requires adjustments) they should change it to responding to the top X petitions with the most signatures each month.

Re: Petition to make unlocking phones legal again passes 100,000 signatures

#145

Post by zanny »

writtles wrote: post #143
jlgreco wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The less dystopic version of my interpretation is that the site is just a way of keeping people happy, rather than "neutralized". Does that seem so implausible to you? > The white house staff are people just like you and I See, that realization is what enables me to believe they would make a petition site just to keep people happy. It is something rather frequently seen in the "real world" from "normal people" (see:…

Yeah, lets just go back to the days of hitting the streets with those paper petitions, and gathering signatures at bus stops and Phish concerts! Why get the internet involved in politics at all?

Because anonymous forums on the internet have proven for a decade sane discourse goes out the window due to the Internet Fuckwad Theorem. It is an entirely different dynamic to be in someones face and have to fear consequences beyond words from your behavior, and honestly, that is what almost any protest in history was for - to try to shake the boots of those who are gifted with power.

An internet petition is just a number and a paragraph that people clicked a thumbs up on. Nobody would ever care unless those people actually started voting differently, and by differently, that means something other than just going across the isle and shaking hands with their neighbor politician in the other camp.

It is the same reason you don't argue with businesses with petition letters, you argue with them with their bottom line. If you are in a state of demanding something, the other party has a power and influence you don't, and you need some pull in the relationship or else you will be walked all over.

Re: Petition to make unlocking phones legal again passes 100,000 signatures

#146

Post by zanny »

pekk wrote: post #41
homosaur wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Filter noise? You mean like concerns of citizens instead of concerns of lobbyists? A Kickstarter might be more useful than a petition in getting the attention of the US government.

Concerns of how many citizens? 10? 1000? Out of how many millions?

I have absolutely no idea how you any cause would get even 10% of Americans to actually get up off their couches and away from the tv long enough to make their voice heard on anything.

I mean, the closest thing is recent history, the Occupy movement, was still only a few tens of thousands at most.

Re: Petition to make unlocking phones legal again passes 100,000 signatures

#147

Post by zanny »

darkarmani wrote: post #65
donniezazen wrote: post #48

When someone is not paying the full price of a phone, how can they expect to do anything with the phone? People don't actually own them.

> People don't actually own them. I think you need to read up on property law or show me what law I'm ignorant of that says you don't actually own the phone.

The contract you sign with the carrier says you don't own the phone until after the contract period expires. Same reason you can't just make copies of a cd of any band you like and hand them out to your friends, in the eyes of the law you may own a plastic disc but the information stored on it isn't yours to own, it is yours to borrow and use in a restricted set of circumstances the rights holder approves of.

Re: Petition to make unlocking phones legal again passes 100,000 signatures

#148

Post by jlgreco »

writtles wrote: post #143
jlgreco wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The less dystopic version of my interpretation is that the site is just a way of keeping people happy, rather than "neutralized". Does that seem so implausible to you? > The white house staff are people just like you and I See, that realization is what enables me to believe they would make a petition site just to keep people happy. It is something rather frequently seen in the "real world" from "normal people" (see:…

Yeah, lets just go back to the days of hitting the streets with those paper petitions, and gathering signatures at bus stops and Phish concerts! Why get the internet involved in politics at all?

How are you reading an opposition to involving the internet in any way out of my post?

Re: Petition to make unlocking phones legal again passes 100,000 signatures

#149

Post by homosaur »

zanny wrote: post #146
pekk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Concerns of how many citizens? 10? 1000? Out of how many millions?

I have absolutely no idea how you any cause would get even 10% of Americans to actually get up off their couches and away from the tv long enough to make their voice heard on anything. I mean, the closest thing is recent history, the Occupy movement, was still only a few tens of thousands at most.

I wish I thought you were being grumpy and cynical instead of accurate.

Re: Petition to make unlocking phones legal again passes 100,000 signatures

#150

Post by markdown »

nateabele wrote: post #55
sinak wrote: post #44

Hey everyone, I started this petition. Very glad we made it to 100k, and excited to see how the White House responds. I'm well aware that the WH may not take any real action though. Please sign up at http://fixthedmca.org if you care about this issue and want to continue helping the move to fix this issue permanently.

Yeah, I hate to be that guy, but the 'petition to end all petitions' comes to mind. Particularly the bits about 'politically safe non-answers' and 'channeling public activism into a cul-de-sac'. :-/

> I hate to be that guy

Then don't be.

If you have nothing positive to contribute, don't.

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