141–150 of 262 posts
-Turn the heat down for more range? Who the heck wants to drive around cold in an extremely expensive car?
-Drive slowly? Again, what?
Elon is simply agreeing with the reviewer's most damning findings: The consumer must make considerable sacrifices - in addition to spending more money - in order to properly use their Tesla car.
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> Given that his job was to write an accurate review Why do you assume that? His job was to attract readership and hits for the NYT. Nothing does that better than controversy.
The New York Times is not some Murdoch trashy paper that deals with gossip and controversy. The integrity of their work is important because that is what is keeping the paper alive whilst the others are falling by the way side. Maybe you should actually try reading it sometime.
This whole controversy has been a little depressing to read...not that the Tesla vs. NYT discussions here have been worse than on other forums, but just because it shows how technical minded people are as easily swayed by preconceptions and alliances as more ostensibly non-scientific minds. How many words have been expended in the other HN thread to allege that Broder -- after most have already established that he is…
However, after reading this article it's clear to me that the data shows Broder flat-out lied about several things (like turning down the heat or setting cruise control to 54 MPH). He also clearly did not just use one of myriad charging stations on the way, even when it was apparent that the car would run out of juice soon. He chose not to recharge. He also chose not to charge the car fully at any of his other stops. While it's fine to play fast-and-loose with your "gas tank" like that (heck, I've done it with normal cars), it's another thing if you do it deliberately to write an "out of gas" headline.
It doesn't matter if the author finds several of these points convincing or not. If the log data is to be believed, it shows that Broder did several things that actively contributed to his running out of energy, and then he lied about doing them.
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did he think he added 32 more miles? I wonder if this is still a problem of UI and such... still its a 100k car and Musk is quibbling over temperature settings... really?
Go to a BMW dealership, take an M5 for a test drive, when the car says it was 32 miles left try to drive it 60. It's a 100k car and it won't make that feat either.
Still my fault?
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There is nothing wrong with replication, it’s just that it’s wholly unable to clear anything up in this case. The main important points of contention aren’t even disagreed over here. Those you could figure out by replication. It’s the interpretation of those results that’s the sticking point here. Some details that cannot be replicated are also disagreed on (heat, circling in parking lot, …), but replication won’t he…
> There is nothing wrong with replication, it’s just that it’s wholly unable to clear anything up in this case. Sorry, but not only John Broder's intentions are in question here. If a bunch of other journalists replicate the trip, but come out with results more in line with Tesla's view, then this calls into question Broder's accuracy, intent or no. You know, there's an empirical context underlying everything here.
Is it really a replicable test? They'd need the same weather patterns, traffic conditions and the same car (untweaked or modified since Broder's drive), not a different, "equivalently equipped" model.
In the documentary Revenge of the Electric car, there's a scene where Musk walks into a warehouse full of cars, all having different issues preventing shipment. For all we know, there was a problem isolated to the particular car Broder drove AND, at the same time, Broder was embellishing his story. In other words, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Of course, we'll never know because we'll never get access to the raw logs.
This whole controversy has been a little depressing to read...not that the Tesla vs. NYT discussions here have been worse than on other forums, but just because it shows how technical minded people are as easily swayed by preconceptions and alliances as more ostensibly non-scientific minds. How many words have been expended in the other HN thread to allege that Broder -- after most have already established that he is…
Musk comes across more as a Preston Tucker or a John DeLorean than a Henry Ford.
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> 45 mph or 52mph, it's the same crap to me. In Australia, you'll get a $100 speeding ticket for going 7MPH over the limit. You need to drive more carefully. http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/usingroads/penalties/speeding.html
This is a law I could get behind. People regularly go 15 MPH over where I live--which is unsafe on the specific road I have in mind. The road is not a personal time transport no matter how late you are!
The problem I have with "he made it up": unless you have a computer keeping track of miles, speed and temperature, you are going to be "lying" about it. For example, I could easily say that I was riding at 67 mph but the computer point out that I actually went as high as 72, as low as 52 a lot of the time. Was I lying? Who the hell is going to remember or write about every speed change on a 500 mile trip? Was it a sc…
I thought the most convincing part of Elon's post was his 3rd bullet point, which relies on no data outside of the article, and which this Atlantic Wire journalist ignores entirely: "In his article, Broder claims that “the car fell short of its projected range on the final leg.” Then he bizarrely states that the screen showed “Est. remaining range: 32 miles” and the car traveled “51 miles," contradicting his own stat…
> The car said it would go 32. It went 51. Broder claimed this "fell short". Clearly it didn't. Your statement is on point only if you don't consider what was in the actual graphic: http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2013/02/10/automobiles/10t... An excerpt: "Driving a 2013 Model S with an 85-kilowatt-hour battery pack, which has an EPA range rating of 265 miles...the car barely reached the next Supercharger, 206 mile…
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I've read all the arguments on both sides, and while both have made good points, there is one that stands out. This reporter clearly barely made any attempt at recharging his empty vehicle in Norwich, and then attempted a drive well beyond the car's capabilities, then made the "running out of fuel" his headline. If he would have done this on gasoline, the result would have been the same, and I think that is getting l…
Just for reference's sake: > After making arrangements to recharge at the Norwich station, I located the proper adapter in the trunk, plugged in and walked to the only warm place nearby, Butch’s Luncheonette and Breakfast Club, an establishment (smoking allowed) where only members can buy a cup of coffee or a plate of eggs. But the owners let me wait there while the Model S drank its juice. Tesla’s experts said that…
As to people doing the same thing, of course they do. Do you have any idea how many people run out of gas despite how common gas stations are and the standard reserve capacity?