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Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

jacquesmattheij.com

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Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#141

Post by callahad »

danielha wrote: post #128

Hi Jacques, I’m Daniel from Disqus. Hopefully I can clear some stuff up. As others in this thread have pointed out, we haven’t really been shy about what we’re doing here. You can see a progress update of how things are going on blog.disqus.com (it’s the second post down as I write this). We’ve put a lot of effort into being communicative around what we’re doing with discovery and advertising (we call it Promoted Dis…

> advertising (we call it Promoted Discovery)

Oh, come on, you guys are better than this.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#142

Post by patrickaljord »

jacquesm wrote: post #122
patrickaljord wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way are they not acceptable? They are totally acceptable to me. They provide a great service for free and now they want to monetize it with ads, shocking! I think it's extremely generous and quite remarkable of them to offer both a cut and an option to opt-out. They should be rewarded for that, not blamed. I think the sense of entitlement you have knowing that disqus offered you a great and free service for y…

You do realize that such ads are called 'stealth' ads and are quite possibly not legal in plenty of places? What is acceptable for you and what isn't is your affair, just like it is my affair what I find acceptable. I don't think you're helping the discussion with your continued personal attacks ('entitlement', 'disgraceful') so I'll leave it at that.

They are not stealth ads as they warned their users a long time ago. I learned about that a few months ago already. You can't blame them for your inability to read your email correctly. Second, you had pretty strong words against disqus calling their decision "bullshit" and encouraging some sort of boycott. All because a free service decided to start making money in order to survive by proposing optional ads with a cut for you to make money on their free service. Sorry, but the sense of entitlement is really too strong here to let go. Had to point it out.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#143

Post by jacquesm »

danielha wrote: post #128

Hi Jacques, I’m Daniel from Disqus. Hopefully I can clear some stuff up. As others in this thread have pointed out, we haven’t really been shy about what we’re doing here. You can see a progress update of how things are going on blog.disqus.com (it’s the second post down as I write this). We’ve put a lot of effort into being communicative around what we’re doing with discovery and advertising (we call it Promoted Dis…

Tell me when I enabled that setting, and explain why you make it seem as if I recommend certain products and services.

On another note do you realize that you make it seem as if I endorse stealth advertising?

Please quit the marketing speak, it makes me itchy.

And I have opted out, as the blog post details.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#144

Post by chc »

patrickaljord wrote: post #118
jacquesm wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not expect to see myself recommending products and services that I would not ever think of recommending to others and I would not expect to see my site change from non-commercial to commercial and I did not expect to see ads masquerading as regular content. Terms of service are a fig leaf, how you act is what matters and these actions are not acceptable, especially not for an opt-out that wasn't there when I si…

In what way are they not acceptable? They are totally acceptable to me. They provide a great service for free and now they want to monetize it with ads, shocking! I think it's extremely generous and quite remarkable of them to offer both a cut and an option to opt-out. They should be rewarded for that, not blamed. I think the sense of entitlement you have knowing that disqus offered you a great and free service for y…

If I offer to paint your house for free, and I do a good job of it but also steal your TV, you actually are entitled to be upset and even call the cops. You can't say, "Hey, I was working for free, and now I want to monetize it with his TV. He's acting so entitled, like I need to ask if it's OK first."

(Obviously I'm not saying they stole anyone's TV, but more extreme examples demonstrate the flaws in an idea better than more subtle ones. The principle of "It's free, so I can do whatever I want and you're being an entitled brat if you object" is simply fallacious.)

Long story short: Working for free does not give you free reign to violate people's trust. Something that isn't OK doesn't suddenly become OK just because you were working for free. If you acted under-handedly, don't be surprised when they call you under-handed on their blog. Being free doesn't immunize you from accusations of under-handedness. It does limit their recourse, but they still have every right to be unhappy.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#145

Post by Turing_Machine »

tarr11 wrote: post #79
eCa wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like many cliches it is proving itself as being true again and again. So one reason that it (maybe) doesn't add much is that everyone knows it is tue, but doesn't want to think about it.

Logically, if the converse is false, then the original statement is false, correct? "If you are the customer, then you are not the product." This is false (many contradictory examples show that you can be both customer and product), and so the original quote itself is false.

Here's a Venn diagram:

http://imgur.com/532xPbd

Note that "If you're not the customer, you're the product" is true, but "If you are the customer, you're not the product" is false.

Your reasoning would hold if the categories were mutually exclusive, but, as you noted, they aren't.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#146

Post by MatthewPhillips »

danielha wrote: post #128

Hi Jacques, I’m Daniel from Disqus. Hopefully I can clear some stuff up. As others in this thread have pointed out, we haven’t really been shy about what we’re doing here. You can see a progress update of how things are going on blog.disqus.com (it’s the second post down as I write this). We’ve put a lot of effort into being communicative around what we’re doing with discovery and advertising (we call it Promoted Dis…

Hi Daniel, why was it not opt-in? You describe it as a "revenue sharing" program, but did not ask your customers if they wanted to be part of it. You assumed their silence meant that they did.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#147

Post by danielha »

callahad wrote: post #141
danielha wrote: post #128

Hi Jacques, I’m Daniel from Disqus. Hopefully I can clear some stuff up. As others in this thread have pointed out, we haven’t really been shy about what we’re doing here. You can see a progress update of how things are going on blog.disqus.com (it’s the second post down as I write this). We’ve put a lot of effort into being communicative around what we’re doing with discovery and advertising (we call it Promoted Dis…

> advertising (we call it Promoted Discovery) Oh, come on, you guys are better than this.

Do you mean the name? We refer to it as advertising pretty openly. That's what it is.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#148

Post by danielha »

jacquesm wrote: post #143
danielha wrote: post #128

Hi Jacques, I’m Daniel from Disqus. Hopefully I can clear some stuff up. As others in this thread have pointed out, we haven’t really been shy about what we’re doing here. You can see a progress update of how things are going on blog.disqus.com (it’s the second post down as I write this). We’ve put a lot of effort into being communicative around what we’re doing with discovery and advertising (we call it Promoted Dis…

Tell me when I enabled that setting, and explain why you make it seem as if I recommend certain products and services. On another note do you realize that you make it seem as if I endorse stealth advertising? Please quit the marketing speak, it makes me itchy. And I have opted out, as the blog post details.

What marketing speak? This is how I talk and I'm an awful marketer.

Re: Disqus bait and switch, now with ads

#149

Post by gtaylor »

danielha wrote: post #128

Hi Jacques, I’m Daniel from Disqus. Hopefully I can clear some stuff up. As others in this thread have pointed out, we haven’t really been shy about what we’re doing here. You can see a progress update of how things are going on blog.disqus.com (it’s the second post down as I write this). We’ve put a lot of effort into being communicative around what we’re doing with discovery and advertising (we call it Promoted Dis…

As a Disqus user, I did receive notification of this and did disable the new "Promoted Discovery" feature. I don't take issue with anything you have just said, except for the part where you call it "Promoted Discovery" instead of advertising.

Let's be real and call it what it is. I think that in this case, the "Promoted Discovery" term is confusing enough to where some users would think that the "Recommended" content really was selected by the content author. Jacques is irate at this, and rightly so. He did not pick the content, and it would appear to some users that he is endorsing things that he isn't.

That's all fun and games until something offensive or politically incorrect gets "Recommended"...

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