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Web Development: A Crazy World

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Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#141

Post by RyanZAG »

EnderMB wrote: post #127
danso wrote: post #53

I'm far from an expert coder compared to most on here...but...what's the big deal? Once you've grokked server-side code and framework, is it really that hard to move from Rails to Sinatra or even to Django? Once you know databases, how hard is it to switch from SQLite to Postgres or to even Mongo? Same goes with Javascript frameworks. Now, I'm referring to the scope of what a web-developer needs to know to interface…

It depends on your definition of "know". I'm a .NET developer by day, and I've met numerous Java developers that have crawled into a .NET role, either as a contractor/freelancer or into a entry/mid-level role at a company, claiming that because they are fantastic Java developers they can pick up C# in no time at all. Yes, if you have been programming for a number of years then the syntax will come quickly, and you'll…

This is generally solved with a 1 week onboarding processing into company culture/dev tools. Normally done by assigning an experienced engineer a week of priority time with the newcomer with the focus on showing company tools and techniques. This really shouldn't be an issue if managed even slightly.

LINQ or VS.net compiler features are not difficult to grasp.

So if your 'huge difference' translates into a week of onboarding time, then sure, you can call it a 'huge difference'.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#142

Post by chrismorgan »

lucian1900 wrote: post #74
conradfr wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which version of Python ? Django or Flask ? Django ORM or SQLAlchemy ?

There are only two practical choices right now, both for Python 2: 1) Django 2) Flask + SQLAlchemy Not that much choice, is there?

With Django 1.5 (final just about to be released, hopefully within a week) supporting Python 3, you're not tied to Python 2.

There are other good options, too. Here's one, also conveniently Python 3 compatible:

(3) Pyramid with (a) SQLAlchemy; (b) ZODB; (c) something else—whatever you want!

I'm actually working on a Pyramid + traversal + ZODB project just at present. It's very instructive when once you have become used to URL routing and pattern matching (I've worked with Django hitherto).

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#143

Post by aditya »

api wrote: post #138
eranation wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author of the original rant here, funny it became viral and translated to Chinese (and back to English) :) The rant was made as a comment here: http://www.zemanta.com/blog/i-bet-you-over-engineered-your-s... Picked up by a Tilo Mitra: http://tilomitra.com/the-crazy-world-of-code/ And as discussed here in HN before: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4226990 The point of it was actually: it's impossible to always kee…

The absolute worst is SOA (the "enterprisey" buzzword for lots of small services) architectures in which every service is written in a different language ! "Oh, our payment processor is in Node, but our site's in Ruby. Our file caching layer is in Python with bits of C for high performance and our crypto stuff is in C++ with Boost and libcryptopp but it talks to a Java app that uses Cassandra..." (Runs outside, sets…

What's wrong with that if every service is using the right tool for the job and provides a sane API? Maybe maintenance?

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#145

Post by papsosouid »

barredo wrote: post #45
rpeden wrote: post #30

I've found that a large subset of programmers share the same trait as a large subset of photographers: they become so obsessed with tools that they lose sight of the fact that the end product is what matters at the end of the day. For example: there are many people who spend thousands on cameras and gear, and still take terrible photos. There are many developers who spend a lot of time keeping up with what they think…

"Let's argue about whether Haskell or Clojure is better while somebody else ships products using PHP and duct tape." @agentdero https://twitter.com/agentdero/status/174965036928868352

I really dislike the anti-intellectualism in fallacious quips like that. People discussing haskell and clojure are not magically prevented from writing code as a result of their intellectual curiosity and desire to explore better tools and methods. The implication that people who are smart and use quality tools never accomplish anything or do any work is quite insidious, as newcomers start taking pride in ignorance because they are "shipping product" while falsely believing those other people aren't. It becomes used as a way to dismiss opportunities to learn because they've equated learning and being educated with not accomplishing anything.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#146

Post by inigoesdr »

bane wrote: post #47

It blows my mind sometimes, looking at a web page made of mostly simple text and a few images, to view the source and see page after page after page of CSS and javascript just to make something that looks only slightly better than http://www.w3.org/History/19921103-hypertext/hypertext/WWW/T...

"Slightly better" is a subjective assertion. Especially in the webdev world where the pace of design and functionality improvements tend to move so fast. Granted, you may display the same/similar information in a text-only page, such as your example. But you won't be engaging users much or creating a site that people will want to see & return to, which is where the money that is spent on webdev work generally comes from.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#147

Post by tbrownaw »

aditya wrote: post #143
api wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolute worst is SOA (the "enterprisey" buzzword for lots of small services) architectures in which every service is written in a different language ! "Oh, our payment processor is in Node, but our site's in Ruby. Our file caching layer is in Python with bits of C for high performance and our crypto stuff is in C++ with Boost and libcryptopp but it talks to a Java app that uses Cassandra..." (Runs outside, sets…

What's wrong with that if every service is using the right tool for the job and provides a sane API? Maybe maintenance?

Yes. The more different languages (and frameworks) someone has to know, the harder it is to hire them. If you hire people who only know the language of one small part of your system, they can't help out on other parts during emergencies and there will be difficulties adding new parts (which language do you use, or which existing part do you steal developers from). If you hire people who know one language and train them in the rest, the more languages there are the more that training will cost.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#148

Post by api »

aditya wrote: post #143
api wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolute worst is SOA (the "enterprisey" buzzword for lots of small services) architectures in which every service is written in a different language ! "Oh, our payment processor is in Node, but our site's in Ruby. Our file caching layer is in Python with bits of C for high performance and our crypto stuff is in C++ with Boost and libcryptopp but it talks to a Java app that uses Cassandra..." (Runs outside, sets…

What's wrong with that if every service is using the right tool for the job and provides a sane API? Maybe maintenance?

A few things:

(1) Code reuse, or lack thereof.

(2) Multiplication of surface area for things like security bugs... now you have five different stacks to keep track of security updates for instead of just one.

(3) Multiplication of deployment resources-- now you need multiple VMs, maybe multiple instances with different stacks to run them on, etc.

(4) Developers can't pinch-hit for each other unless they know every damn stack in the world.

(5) If you sell, God help whoever has to support that stuff in your new organization.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#149

Post by meej »

PommeDeTerre wrote: post #41
smutticus wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"A bad carpenter blames his tools." -- Unknown

Bad tools can still severely hamper even the best of experts.

Bad tools also completely confound beginners and can make them think they aren't suited to or do not enjoy an activity that they might otherwise enjoy if they had better tools.

For example, I used to hate cooking, because I hated the prep work, it was very difficult for me. It turned out that my hand-me-down knives were very, very dull, a fact I didn't realize until I decided to invest in a nice set of Henckels. A sharp, quality knife makes the prep work easy and now I enjoy cooking much more than I used to. And now, whenever a friend tells me they want to learn to cook, my first recommendation is to make sure they have a good sharp set of knives, because for me, that made all the difference.

Re: Web Development: A Crazy World

#150

Post by tubbo »

api wrote: post #138
eranation wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author of the original rant here, funny it became viral and translated to Chinese (and back to English) :) The rant was made as a comment here: http://www.zemanta.com/blog/i-bet-you-over-engineered-your-s... Picked up by a Tilo Mitra: http://tilomitra.com/the-crazy-world-of-code/ And as discussed here in HN before: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4226990 The point of it was actually: it's impossible to always kee…

The absolute worst is SOA (the "enterprisey" buzzword for lots of small services) architectures in which every service is written in a different language ! "Oh, our payment processor is in Node, but our site's in Ruby. Our file caching layer is in Python with bits of C for high performance and our crypto stuff is in C++ with Boost and libcryptopp but it talks to a Java app that uses Cassandra..." (Runs outside, sets…

If they all speak the same API there shouldn't be a problem...
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