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In the future, all space marines will be Warhammer 40K space marines

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Re: In the future, all space marines will be Warhammer 40K space marines

#141

Post by mikecane »

masklinn wrote: post #99
tristanperry wrote: post #84

This is unfortunate but not unexpected. I used to run a fairly large 40K website (Tau Online, now defunct). I'd regularly receive letters and e-mails from the Games Workshop legal team. I remember one time, someone had made a simple post on our forums saying they were thinking of selling a short story they'd written based around the 40K World. He hadn't named the story. It wasn't for sale. He was just thinking out lo…

At least Warhammer 40K is their actual product. As comments in TFA and here indicate the expression has been in scifi since 1932: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_marine

There were Space Marines in the 007 movie Moonraker.

Re: In the future, all space marines will be Warhammer 40K space marines

#142

Post by cheald »

hartror wrote: post #116
jiggy2011 wrote: post #107

Games Workshop must be scared shitless of 3d printing. Their rulebooks have been passed around on torrent sites and IRC networks for years but I assumed they never really gave a shit because the models are where the cash is.

Yeah they're pretty boned. They'd be mad not to accept the inevitable embrace the tech and re-gear their business model around that.

Given how hard they've worked to squeeze their fanbase for as much cash as possible, it kinda seems like they're toast.

A beloved brand can survive a technological shift that invalidates their current business model, but a reviled brand is done.

Re: In the future, all space marines will be Warhammer 40K space marines

#143

Post by cheald »

illuminate wrote: post #73
awakeasleep wrote: post #51

We might be watching a company eat itself here. Considering the amount of engineering types in the market for minifigs, plus the impending ubiquitization of 3D printers, customer good-will should be the most valuable asset of Gamer's Workshop.

No amount of good-will is going to prevent GW's business model from being seriously affected by consumer-level 3d printers. Thankfully for them, we're still a few years away from this being a concern. My guess? 3-4 or whenever the UV resin-baseds take off. The Repraps and higher-quality extruders still aren't ready for your average consumer in price, time, and finish.

Sure, a loved and respected brand could pivot to selling printer schematics and printing materials/paints that are tested and guaranteed to work well together. Set up local branches that have printers so you can go into the store, buy some schematics and print them off (at a markup) there in the store directly.

You eliminate all your manufacturing and packaging costs and get to keep your fanbase engaged. You could really go for the gold and offer a subscription that gets you recurring access to new schematics, and then you can pivot the business towards designing new units and since you no longer have a manufacturing concern to maintain, you can churn out tons more units.

Re: In the future, all space marines will be Warhammer 40K space marines

#144

Post by stcredzero »

regularfry wrote: post #136
cygx wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently the term 'space marine' was never used in the movies, but the alien-themed toys by Kenner from 1992 do use it.

Would the fact that GW didn't enforce against that use be enough to invalidate their original 1987 claim?

Maybe if we also dug up a whole library of other fiction and toys/games using the term as well.

Re: In the future, all space marines will be Warhammer 40K space marines

#145

Post by stcredzero »

If the author kickstarted or otherwise crowd funded the legal defense for this, I'll give $100. Trademarking "Space Marine" is pretty much like trademarking "Amphibious Car." It's not exactly a mainstream term, but still everyone immediately knows what it means without explanation, and it's been in common use within its niche for almost a century.

It would be one thing if GW had sent the nastygram and came to some kind of token settlement, that should be enough to cover their interests, but to get the book taken down instead seems wrong.

Stupid trademarks are another form of IP pollution. $100 from me!

Re: In the future, all space marines will be Warhammer 40K space marines

#147

Post by wisty »

Natsu wrote: post #118
Argorak wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which, in terms of trademark, is very irrelevant :).

This is a weak trademark, it has no secondary meaning that I can discern. You have marines. They're in space. Thus, "space marines." That would seem to fall under the weaker classes of trademark protection[1] and even though I have long known about Warhammer 40K, the words "space marines" do not make me (or most other people I know) think of Warhammer 40K. Personally, that term makes me think of the Aliens movie and…

So, putting "Space Marine" in a title might a bad idea, but having marines in space (with or without mechanized body suits) should be fine. To reduce legal risks, you might want to call them "Space Core Maines" or "Space Marine Core".

Re: In the future, all space marines will be Warhammer 40K space marines

#148

Post by macchina »

anigbrowl wrote: post #133
macchina wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but "Space Marine" is an extremely weak mark, and evidently it is only registered in one class of goods and services (in the US): " board games, parlor games, war games, hobby games, toy models and miniatures of buildings, scenery, figures, automobiles, vehicles, planes, trains and card games and paint, sold therewith. " [1] I don't think the claim is baseless, but I don't see how this is a must litigate scenari…

They don't have to litigate; they can read a reply from the publisher and say 'oh all right then.' But if a trademark holder doesn't bother to raise the issue with someone else who employs the mark, then their lack of interest can be attacked in court as constructive abandonment. I don't think any money needs to or should change hands. As an example, I put out a book featuring space marines, nothing happens. I put ou…

That makes sense.

Re: In the future, all space marines will be Warhammer 40K space marines

#149

Post by njharman »

bunderbunder wrote: post #32
njharman wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because lack of "prior art" is not a requirement for trademark, nor is uniqueness. "Coke" has other meanings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coke_(fuel) and yet is still trademarked.

That said, isn't it the case that one can't just take something that exists in common usage and trademark it as-is? For example, the basic structure of the fairy tale about Aladdin and the magic lamp had been around for a long time, and was clearly not originated by Disney. Consequently, Disney has no right to claim trademark or copyright control over the name Aladdin or or anything generally related to the story. Th…

Trade | Service Marks are so different than Copyright that they should not be mentioned in same sentence.

Aladdin seems to be a TM http://www.trademarkencyclopedia.com/aladdin/ http://www.aladdinlamps.com/ViewPage.asp?PageID=5

The most basic thing you and everyone reading this needs to take away is that "should" != "law". Beyond that learn what Registered Marks are, the rights and responsibilities of owning one. It's not hard to get a correct if layperson's understanding. (something 90+% of posting online lack)

Re: In the future, all space marines will be Warhammer 40K space marines

#150

Post by njharman »

illuminate wrote: post #70
njharman wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GW is a large company. And it is the behemoth in it's industry. They do not innovate, just rehash same properties. They are the incumbent, "monopoly", content holder who (attempts to) destroy little guys.

Legal wrangling aside, I don't see a problem with a lack of "innovation", the same WH40K I played as a kid would still be fun today, however it is certainly interesting to see how WoTC has attempted to innovate to sell new products. The main difference, of course, is that WH40K is wargaming min-maxy and specific troop-based versus D&D allowing a great deal of flexibility in the rules and creative content.

None of the stuff you had as a kid would be playable. The rules have changed, the figures replaced, old ones out classed, etc. GW rehashes so you have to buy new stuff constantly. They don't innovate (besides marketing/sales innovations).

Hasbro (wotc is subsidary) also rehashes, maybe more so. They're only innovations are sales and marketing based. They recent innovations online portal, 4ed and gamma world have flopped hard.

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