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Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

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Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#141

Post by buro9 »

amyyyyyyyyyy wrote: post #58

I'm going to put my thoughts down here. The sections will be: Work Escorting and sexuality Drug and alcohol addiction Family Attention What I want The plan WORK I work as a software engineer. Well, I would, if I was able to hold a job for more than 6 months without the company getting tired of me. I'm good at what I do. My bosses love my output. I have open source projects and contributions. Even on my first programm…

My email is in my profile, drop me a line.

I live and work in London, I lived on the streets for a while, I have a shit family (which I frequently regard as no family)... and ultimately, I have the same plan but constantly deferred as I also seem to have a qualitative view of life and an appreciation for the simple things... I've found peace enough that today is a day worth living and tomorrow worth waking up to. It's years since the bad stuff, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

I also am a programmer, have a startup (own company), and if you need to talk to someone who might comprehend, I'll do that. Won't try and talk you out of the plan, because it's my plan too... but there's a lot of reason not to execute the plan today, tomorrow. Take each day like that and you can get a lot from life.

Oh, and startups... I know mine doesn't watch the clock on employee hours, but then I'm busy coding Sunday evening. It's possible to find a stable job that helps you transition through the addictions into stability.

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#142

Post by orionblastar »

zoba wrote: post #36

I previously struggled with intense depression that lasted about 4 years. At the end of the four years, I had a realization that was so powerful that I haven't entered a period of depression lasting more than a week in the subsequent 4 years. My hopes are that this story, and the lesson learned by the end of it, may help others. In addition, its important to state that this is my story as it happened. I am one man, w…

Atheism should not depress you, some religions are atheistic like Buddhism. If you don't see a reason or purpose for life, then make some for yourself. Don't let evil people win who push you towards suicide. I know the feeling I've been bullied and abused by people who told me to kill myself. But I refuse to let them get to me anymore.

At least live for friends and family members who care about you and want you to live. That has to be some sort of rational reason to live right there. If not then find a irrational one like live to see what is new in comic books, movies, TV shows, technology, science, medicine, etc. Just live to see the new stuff come out and enjoy it. Some people live with no known reason or purpose to live, they live because they are alive.

You define your own meaning to life, don't let others force theirs on you. That is your rational reason and rational purpose to live, to find meaning in life. See you are on a quest to learn that, so live it the best way you can without harming others.

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#143

Post by rdl »

amyyyyyyyyyy wrote: post #137
rdl wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it doesn't sound like your life is that horrible objectively, and could easily improve. It sounds sound objectively empty, and you could easily be depressed in addition to that, but "empty" isn't the worst thing in the world, and isn't permanent, unlike death. Why not just contract (so the 6mo thing isn't a problem), and ramp down the coke/liquor. Other than that, it sounds like things will get better with time…

"ramp down the coke/liquor" It's not that easy. Tried to quit before and I can't last more than 48 hours without hallucinating. "SF or NYC if you want to be a SW engineer" Would love to move to SF, but like you guessed I'm in the UK (London). Getting a visa is very difficult.

I didn't say cut it out -- just ramp down. Lower quantity, and do alcohol/coke in "boring" ways, like medicine, vs. associating them with fun stuff. Or, replace with somewhat less destructive drugs (alcohol abuse is way worse than coke, IMO, except that coke is illegal)

Do visa waiver for 3 months, and work for cash/informally, or as a contractor. I'm sure you can figure out a way to stay past that. (if a company really likes you, they could help) Or, Vancouver, BC is probably adequate. If you're otherwise going to kill yourself, I don't think pushing the limits on a visa is a big deal.

The other thing would be get into a US university. If you can't get into a top-tier school, go to an ok school in an interesting location (I'm not sure how they do foreign students, but even something like Foothill College in the Bay Area would get you near a bunch of startups).

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#144

Post by obstacle1 »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #117
obstacle1 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That life has no purpose effectively means that there is freedom. It is very scary, but we have to choose the purpose for ourselves. I think that this is precisely what drives many people to insanity. We are not brought up to think that we are free. When we experience freedom (either intellectually or actually) we become overwhelmed. We quite literally don't know how to handle it. We (in most of the West) are taught…

Life is what you make it. That doesn't mean it is a void, it means you have influence over how it turns out. If you find it scary, then I'd suggest you might want to look around you... there is a world that exists outside your head. Think about this conversation we're having, we've probably never met, yet I am more than just a thought that exists inside your head, I am a sentient being, and I am different to you yet…

>Life is what you make it. That doesn't mean it is a void

Life means nothing. There is no moral standard, universal ideal, or God to live up to or for. "Making" your life is painting a picture on a blank canvas. That is filling a void, and your saying "get out of your head!" is nothing more than your way of filling said void.

Regarding our conversation, yes, it is neat. However that it is neat doesn't magically infuse life with meaning. We are wherever we are, conversing, and life is still meaningless. I am still gazing into the void. And the void is still gazing back at you.

Regarding the cogito. That life exists in many forms does not give life meaning. The likeliest case is that life means absolutely nothing and that all there is is nothingness. We have no purpose here other than what we've invented for ourselves, and even then we have different conceptions of what that is. "I think therefore I am," and what next? That is the void.

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#145

Post by aaronthrowaway »

I'd like to add that I went through something very similar, although on a smaller scale. The prosecutor was charging me with ridiculous things, giving me the option to plead guilty or go to trial and keep appealing until I went broke, and ending up in jail on top of it.

When I read Aaron's story, I understood exactly how he felt. I felt like killing myself so many times. The prosecutor destroyed my family, my livelihood, my reputation, my life. And there was no "victim" either. I was completely alone at the end of it.

I'm on year 2 of starting again, and I'm telling you it does get better. A lot better.

I hope that Aaron's story sheds some light on the lack of empathy, and straight up bullying the prosecutors employ against vulnerable people. They went harder on me when they found out I lost my job. They are bullies, plain and simple.

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#146

Post by tianshuo »

michaelochurch wrote: post #83
venus wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life has no purpose. It's just applied randomness, like everything else. This is difficult for the non-religious to swallow, that's why religion exists. HN isn't a support network but I fully understand and appreciate your post.

Life has no purpose. Bullshit. We don't know how long life lasts, nor whether supernatural purposes or intentful[0] beings exist, nor what (if anything) is after. That does not mean there is "no purpose" to it. It is its own purpose. Personally, I am most in line with Buddhism and think reincarnation is likely, and that mind (consciousness) itself is a first-class citizen, but existence doesn't have to be eternal to…

I agree with many parts of Buddhism but sorry pal, reincarnation (and heaven/hell) is totally BS. You have been cheated and ask yourself a question? Do you remember what happened before your present life? No? Then how come what you do now effects your "future" life that doesn't even care about your present life. Reincarnation is unfalsifiable(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falsifiability), which means it is as believable as the Flying Spaghetti Monster(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spaghetti_monster) And you could also ask how you are even reincarnated to a human when the probability of being a virus/bacteria is several magnitudes larger? Accept life does not have a purpose, and all that exists are patterns, consciousness itself is only a complicated pattern.

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#147

Post by venus »

Xcelerate wrote: post #95
venus wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life has no purpose. It's just applied randomness, like everything else. This is difficult for the non-religious to swallow, that's why religion exists. HN isn't a support network but I fully understand and appreciate your post.

> Life has no purpose. It's just applied randomness, like everything else. What makes you so sure of yourself? Smarter people than you have both believed and not believed in a greater purpose or in God. It's something that's been debated since man has existed, yet you seem unusually... certain... that you are correct. > This is difficult for the non-religious to swallow, that's why religion exists. If every human's b…

I'm sure smarter men than myself believed the world is flat, or that leeching drained bad humours, lacking as they did proper knowledge or even a proper way of reasoning. But we do not lack for these things today.

The reason I sound sure of myself is because all of supernatural religion is impossible. It is all impossible. It is against every single thing we understand about the physical universe and, should evidence emerge confirming any of it, all we knew should be upturned - but that has not and will not happen because there is no evidence whatsoever. What would you do with a theory in total conflict with every other (working!) theory you have, and with absolutely no evidence in its favour?

Show me any evidence, at all, that any of it is even remotely possible, at all, and I'll promptly eat my hat, your hat, any other hats around, and join you at the altar. Until then, it's nothing but a bunch of ludicrous superstition.

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#148

Post by venus »

zoba wrote: post #106
devcpp wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you prove it? His whole point is that there is no conclusive evidence that there is no purpose to life, and there will never be if there is none to be found, and that is precisely why the only way to find one is to keep looking for it. Specific religions as we know them have nothing to do with this. Indeed, even he said he had logically convinced himself there is no God. It doesn't all have to be about God-in-a-b…

This is the first time I've publicly posted about this, and I'm glad to see that someone (you!) understands it. You're comment is spot on. I'll add a bit: Venus says life has no purpose. After venus makes that statement, what does venus do next? Lets say it is some action, X. Why did venus do X? Well, because of Y1 (Y1 could be 'to sustain living' or 'to be happy' or 'to help others'). Ok, but why is Y1 important? Be…

Firstly, thank you for talking about it - I do not mean to argue with you about your own thoughts. But I think differently.

When I said life has no purpose, I didn't mean it was futile or nihilist or anything else. I mean that words like "purpose" simply do not apply. Purpose is an anthropological term and is meaningless in this context. To what "purpose" do mountains rise, volcanoes erupt, meteors explode in the sky? It is inappropriate to try to find purpose in these things. Purpose is a human concept.

This applies to life too. We are here because we, by whatever crazy turns of chance and happenstance, are here. There is no other answer; indeed that is not even one. We may be wiped out by a meteor tomorrow and the universe cares not one whit.

Why, you ask? Who on earth are you asking? There is no "why". Why did the coin come up heads or tails? Why does someone live and someone else die in an automobile accident? Why is that rock here, and not over there? There is no "why". For there to be a reason, someone needs to have thought about it, and there is no someone. There are causes and effects, yes, but no "why".

So what do we do next? We do what we are programmed to do, after thousands of generations of trial and error - we love one another, treat each other with kindness, some of us screw up, but mostly we try to pull together to improve our world and the lives of the people we love. Because that is all we are, animals with organic computers for brains and this is the program we are running, and there's no "why" for that, either.

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#149

Post by rabidonrails »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #117
obstacle1 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That life has no purpose effectively means that there is freedom. It is very scary, but we have to choose the purpose for ourselves. I think that this is precisely what drives many people to insanity. We are not brought up to think that we are free. When we experience freedom (either intellectually or actually) we become overwhelmed. We quite literally don't know how to handle it. We (in most of the West) are taught…

Life is what you make it. That doesn't mean it is a void, it means you have influence over how it turns out. If you find it scary, then I'd suggest you might want to look around you... there is a world that exists outside your head. Think about this conversation we're having, we've probably never met, yet I am more than just a thought that exists inside your head, I am a sentient being, and I am different to you yet…

Well said! I think I'm going to make this comment into a poster :)

Re: Why you shouldn't do what Aaron did

#150

Post by zoba »

verysoftoiltppr wrote: post #118
zoba wrote: post #36

I previously struggled with intense depression that lasted about 4 years. At the end of the four years, I had a realization that was so powerful that I haven't entered a period of depression lasting more than a week in the subsequent 4 years. My hopes are that this story, and the lesson learned by the end of it, may help others. In addition, its important to state that this is my story as it happened. I am one man, w…

What specific actions have you taken in order to discover the purpose of life since you decided you set yourself up to do it?

I think this is a good question. My first conclusion I drew as an undergrad was that since I cannot currently grasp the purpose, I need to put myself in a position where that would be more likely. My grades went from just barely passing to near 4.0. I knew I needed to do well in school so that I could learn more, so that I can be more valuable to others, so that I may obtain more wealth and influence, so that I can have the ability to do more things...and perhaps one of those things would be discovering the purpose.

Since no one before has ever extracted the purpose from the fabric of the universe, I knew I needed to be able to do things that none, or very few, have been able to do. I decided I cannot lead an average life. Even if the average life of an American in the 2000s offers much more than an average life even 100 years ago, my rough estimations suggest that this still isn't enough to find the purpose.

I also went about abolishing my depression. Depression served no purpose other than to limit me by sapping energy, making me disinterested in things, and disinterested in people. I forced myself to find meaning in things based on what they meant to my new ultimate goal, that is, discovering the ultimate goal. With a goal in mind that I actually believed in, I could feel happiness and accomplishment every time I took a step towards it. The depression ended.

I studied what it is that makes people successful. It appears to me that being valuable to other people is central. Luckily I'm already fairly smart, because large scale success (as opposed to just being successful in your social group) implies a higher bar of ability since your social group is now "the world". Being smart is good, but isn't quite valuable to other people in a large way. So, I'm developing tools to help people improve their lives and simultaneously aim to elevate myself by elevating other people.

The final piece I feel I should share is that eventually, my ability to search for the purpose will run out. Specifically, I mean death. However, unlike previous generations, my generation has the luxury of believing (through medicine and technology) that there is a small probability that we can escape death far longer than those who've lived before us. I am torn about how to approach this. Should I drop everything and go study medicine and be a direct contributing factor to possibly escaping death, or should I gain wealth and influence and promote research through those means? I have decided on the latter for now. It is a bet, and its one I'm unsure of. In the end, though, if it becomes clear I'm on the verge of death... I can at least have piece of mind that I did as best I could and have no regrets for the way I spent my life.

Either there is a purpose or there isn't, and I will find it or I won't. If there is a purpose and I find it, win. If there isn't a purpose and I don't find it, then things like 'win' and 'lose' don't make sense because there is no way to be doing the right or wrong thing without some purpose to judge it against. If there isn't a purpose and I do find it -- thats not possible. If there is a purpose and I don't find it then, while perhaps its sad that I missed out on discovering it, I can rest assured that I've done everything in my ability to discover it, and hold no blame on myself for not living more optimally / doing the right thing.

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