PHP needs a vision

> everything just worked.

That's the scariest thing about the language. The php will run whatever you write in the script; assuming things, hiding errors, etc..

I don't think that the supporting evidence needs to be explicitly stated. Those of us who have used PHP before inherently know why he posted what he posted. The evidence and reasoning is in our past experience with the language, and it's much stronger than a "citation" of some blog post or anything of that sort.

It's quite telling that we don't see comments like that for other languages that often, if ever. Aside from perhaps JavaScript, no other mainstream programming language causes experienced programmers so much grief. No other language is so riddled with obvious deficiencies, and so problematic.

Wow. I must say I'm surprised (not in a good way!) by the lack of quality of a number of the comments here. I already knew that PHP isn't the language of choice of cool programmers, but at least they make some sort of informed decision. Some of the comments here ("PHP must die!" and "I use Rails" or "I switched to JavaScipt") really show a lack of understanding about even the most basic concepts of PHP, or programming in general.

I'm the first one to admit that PHP has its flaws, but that's not to say that other languages are perfect, or 'better'. PHP is a Frankenstein's monster, and no matter the quality of body parts you schlep onto it, it will probably still work. Ruby on the other hand is stricter, more consistent. If you're new to programming you can hit the ground running with Ruby (especially with the Rails framework, but if you're new to programming, would you even know how a framework relates to a programming language?). But if you want to go beyond a simple CRUD-app, Ruby poses a lot of challenges that can be hard to solve whereas PHP, well, just works.

My point is: you pick the right tool for the right job. For a lot of people, the right tool is PHP because it's the only thing they know. That's not PHP's fault, now is it? This kind of thinking reminds me of the clash between Apple fanboys and Fandroids: to each their merits, but you can't seriously state the one's perfect and the other one is utter rubbish.

Wether you like PHP or not, it's still: a) the most popular programming language b) the programming language with the most job openings (Source: http://www.udemy.com/blog/modern-language-wars/) This has to count for something, right?

So please, for the sake of keeping HN a decent place, refrain from using non-argumented statements like 'PHP must die'. You're not adding anything to the discussion and you make yourself look like a fool.

As for the 'vision of PHP': I'm glad there is none. It's the gateway drug to a lot of programmers, and I'm sure that I would have given up on programming if it weren't for PHP. When I look back on some of the stuff I wrote some 10 years ago I just want to cry, but that does show that I've grown as a programmer. It's perfectly possible for people to start out with PHP and evolve to good programmers, regardless of language used. A stricter defined PHP would just kill that.

Personally I think PHP has a bad rap for two reasons:

First: Community like HN and such, have lot of good and smart people, however, lots of us are what I like to call "tech hipster", they like to always brag about how they prefer some new-shiny language/framework whatever, as if that means they know more than the average developer. Like an hipster when it comes to some underground-indie-band.

It's pretty fun to see this, I laugh quite a lot TBH. And because of this PHP is looked upon as a mainstream language, like POP music, always number one on the charts, always on the frontpages, but like POP it lacks quality, good taste and so on (what some people think at least).

So, many of us, just hate PHP cause it's POP and using a POP language is cheesy and lame...whatever...and they just hate PHP because they read someone else's saying it sucks. eg: "PHP sucks, because I use X"

Second reason: Other people on the other hand, have really fundamental reasons to dislike PHP, however, I noticed that a lot of these people haven't used PHP since version 4, and they are completely out of the current state of PHP. I don't mean everyone, but most of them do.

I'm not a PHP fan or anything, in my work I have to use it, although I really wish I could use Python, but I can't. So, instead I try my best to use it in the best way I can.

I'm currently using Symfony2 framework, which brings a lot of good web dev practices into PHP world. I'm looking at Laravel as well.

To be, most people still think PHP developers use a PHP as a single file where they put PHP function on the top tof the file and html at the bottom and such...and if you a good developer you can really make PHP shine these days, because there a good tools and frameworks out there.

By that standard, anything may as well be written in a language that eventually results in machine code being executed.