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Making Facebook's native mobile app faster using HTML5

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Re: Making Facebook's native mobile app faster using HTML5

#141

Post by macspoofing »

blub wrote: post #125
macspoofing wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with multi-browser support, it isn't that bad . But we're not talking about websites here, are we? We're talking about using HTML/CSS/JS to build native apps for mobile devices - which are by and large webkit-based. This greatly simplifies everything.

Oh really? Let's take my webkit-based mobile browser then and look at an instagram picture. Hm, it's cut in half and I can't scroll. Mobile web apps are actually iOS webapps that most of the time work on Android. Stop pretending you actually care about standards and cross-platform, you're only interested in doing less work, learning fewer things and holding users firmly by the balls in the cloud.

I got maybe half your point though I'm not quite sure what your objection is.

"Holding users firmly by the balls in the cloud"? If your service already resides in the cloud, the technology you implement your client software in, hardly matters, no? Facebook app, whether is HTML5 or native, is largely unusable without a persistent internet connection. Yes, I am interested in doing less work. I do care about standards, thanks. I certainly wouldn't stand in the way of anyone wanting to learn whatever they want. If you want to build an app to learn Objective-C, all the power to you.

Re: Making Facebook's native mobile app faster using HTML5

#142

Post by macspoofing »

spamizbad wrote: post #110
macspoofing wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What mess? HTML/CSS/JS is exceptionally good at building user interfaces. And you're on the right side of technology by attaching yourself to the HTML bandwagon. I would go as far as to say that if you're starting development on a new ("form-based") native app, your first choice should be HTML. You only go native if you have a very good reason to do so.

> HTML/CSS/JS is exceptionally good at building user interfaces Only if your background is HTML/CSS/JS. If you have no web background, figuring out the idiosyncrasies of CSS and JS, while very doable, is still very time-consuming. I can't imagine it being any faster than someone going the native route assuming they do not have an existing web skillset to leverage.

>If you have no web background, figuring out the idiosyncrasies of CSS and JS, while very doable, is still very time-consuming.

That's true for anything. Objective-C is not exactly intuitive.

Re: Making Facebook's native mobile app faster using HTML5

#143

Post by jtchang »

macspoofing wrote: post #61
rimantas wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even when browsers are powerfull enough the mess what is trying to shoehorn technologies created for hyperlinked text into apps development will still be a mess. It may appeal for those who know only the said technologies, but frankly, they would be better of by just learning the native instead of spending time traying to fight quirks. As for the appeal "run everythere"—that's just some more quirks. Good luck with th…

What mess? HTML/CSS/JS is exceptionally good at building user interfaces. And you're on the right side of technology by attaching yourself to the HTML bandwagon. I would go as far as to say that if you're starting development on a new ("form-based") native app, your first choice should be HTML. You only go native if you have a very good reason to do so.

"HTML/CSS/JS is exceptionally good at building user interfaces."

I can't believe you just said that. -- every seasoned web developer.

Re: Making Facebook's native mobile app faster using HTML5

#144

Post by wamatt »

brianchu wrote: post #11

I ran the HTML5 app on my iTouch 4G running iOS 6 (roughly equivalent to iPhone 3GS) and compared it to the native FB app. The HTML5 app had noticeable lag in the swipe transitions. It also crashed once when loading a photo (only once though). Not to mention that they implement almost everything differently and leave out 90% of FB's features. That being said, it was really smooth on my iTouch 5G. The demo HTML5 app a…

Many seem to be missing the point here. While native in the mobile context, has the potential to be faster, it's a necessary, but not sufficient condition for superior responsiveness and usability.

Even with the native app, the same poor design decisions are being repeated once again. For example, not caching data locally between screens - an especially egregious oversight in the context of mobile networking.

I think the broader issue however, is just how out of touch Mark Zuckerberg was with regards to mobile and perhaps even emerging web technology in general.

He eventually admitted to screwing up (great!), but then got it so wrong again, by declaring HTML5 as the culprit. The problem was almost certainly more attributable to people and management issues, rather than a technological misstep, irrespective of whether that resulted in a more palatable conclusion for Mr Zuckerberg's ego.

As for the Sencha demo, after installing it on my iPhone 4s it works really well, and installing it as app on the home screen makes it virtually indistinguishable from native. I think it's fair to say this is a rather significant achievement by Sencha, indeed considering it's a part time effort.

Which makes one wonder what a full time team, with the right leadership and resources, could have achieved at Facebook.

Re: Making Facebook's native mobile app faster using HTML5

#145

Post by yareally »

blub wrote: post #125
macspoofing wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even with multi-browser support, it isn't that bad . But we're not talking about websites here, are we? We're talking about using HTML/CSS/JS to build native apps for mobile devices - which are by and large webkit-based. This greatly simplifies everything.

Oh really? Let's take my webkit-based mobile browser then and look at an instagram picture. Hm, it's cut in half and I can't scroll. Mobile web apps are actually iOS webapps that most of the time work on Android. Stop pretending you actually care about standards and cross-platform, you're only interested in doing less work, learning fewer things and holding users firmly by the balls in the cloud.

My issue with HTML apps (like your issue) is many developers think it's perfectly okay to use that iOS interface on Android because Android does not force you to change it. The Android ecosystem is so polluted with apps like this that it almost makes me long for Google to put their foot down and start forcing UI compliance like Apple does.

It's bad enough Android users have to deal with legacy apps on their own OS that still use pre Android 3.0/4.0 UI conventions (or worse, poorly slap them on top of their old interface without consideration). The only apps that should be allowed to get away with rolling their own UI are games.

Re: Making Facebook's native mobile app faster using HTML5

#146

Post by sojacques »

rimantas wrote: post #46
brianchu wrote: post #11

I ran the HTML5 app on my iTouch 4G running iOS 6 (roughly equivalent to iPhone 3GS) and compared it to the native FB app. The HTML5 app had noticeable lag in the swipe transitions. It also crashed once when loading a photo (only once though). Not to mention that they implement almost everything differently and leave out 90% of FB's features. That being said, it was really smooth on my iTouch 5G. The demo HTML5 app a…

Even when browsers are powerfull enough the mess what is trying to shoehorn technologies created for hyperlinked text into apps development will still be a mess. It may appeal for those who know only the said technologies, but frankly, they would be better of by just learning the native instead of spending time traying to fight quirks. As for the appeal "run everythere"—that's just some more quirks. Good luck with th…

Saying that HTML is nothing but a technology created for hyperlinked text is like saying the mobile device you're using all the time was created to pass phone calls. While this is true, it is a truly weak statement.

You make it sound like learning the native will magically lead to create better working apps. This is just not true.

I'm not saying going native doesn't have to potential to help developers create faster apps, but when making something like this feed, HTML5 would not seriously be a bottleneck.

And you're claiming to be a "very experienced web developer"? Dunning-Kruger much?

Re: Making Facebook's native mobile app faster using HTML5

#149

Post by pjmlp »

mistercow wrote: post #124
pjmlp wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because each single browser out there has a different understanding of what HTML/CSS/JS means. Making web sites that comply to customer requirements down to pixel level, across all required target browsers is a major pain.

>Making web sites that comply to customer requirements down to pixel level, across all required target browsers is a major pain. How is that a fair comparison to native apps? A native app can run on one platform. Making native apps pixel-for-pixel identical on multiple platforms is way more of a pain than doing so with HTML5.

But it is possible, while with the so called web applications you are limited to what the browser thinks you want to do.

Re: Making Facebook's native mobile app faster using HTML5

#150

Post by cheeaun »

posabsolute wrote: post #14
brianchu wrote: post #11

I ran the HTML5 app on my iTouch 4G running iOS 6 (roughly equivalent to iPhone 3GS) and compared it to the native FB app. The HTML5 app had noticeable lag in the swipe transitions. It also crashed once when loading a photo (only once though). Not to mention that they implement almost everything differently and leave out 90% of FB's features. That being said, it was really smooth on my iTouch 5G. The demo HTML5 app a…

I am currently developing a vanilla (no mobile frameworks like sencha) mobile web app I can attest that on IOS you can pretty much get native performance if you do some trade off and optimize your app rendering. On android that's another game and you can forget about all those cozy animations and only devices with android 4.0+ will perform well, or at all (in my case anyway). Also I'm really not sure why people curre…

Is that app on github or something? Would love to try it.
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