Woman pulled over twice after Flock-linked software connected her to homicide • Hacker News Board

Re: Woman pulled over twice after Flock-linked software connected her to homicide

#141

Post by sterlind » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:32 PM UTC

Xirdus wrote: post #102

jvanderbot wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. A perfect surveillance state is still wrong by design. If you dont accept this, consider the perfect surveillance state under president N, used by president N+1 given the inevitable flipflop in party control.

Unfortunately, the Trump presidency has conclusively proved the "imagine if your opponent was in power" argument doesn't work. Everybody says Trump should be impeached, nobody says the office of the president should be deprived of the powers Trump used to do the things he should be impeached for.

> Everybody says Trump should be impeached, nobody says the office of the president should be deprived of the powers Trump used to do the things he should be impeached for.

I've been shouting this from the mountaintops.

Re: Woman pulled over twice after Flock-linked software connected her to homicide

#142

Post by NyxWulf » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:32 PM UTC

convolvatron wrote: post #124

Xirdus wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, the Trump presidency has conclusively proved the "imagine if your opponent was in power" argument doesn't work. Everybody says Trump should be impeached, nobody says the office of the president should be deprived of the powers Trump used to do the things he should be impeached for.

that's strictly not true. at least one person doesn't believe in absolute presidential power. a lot of us believe that the president should really be an administrative head, and very limited ability to effect policy directly at all.

People believe a lot of things, especially when the other side has power. The point is that people complain about how the power is used by the other side. When power switches sides, they don't roll that power back. They pretty much always leave it in place.

Re: Woman pulled over twice after Flock-linked software connected her to homicide

#143

Post by aftbit » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:32 PM UTC

Animats wrote: post #19

That's not a Flock error. That's a law enforcement error. Flock isn't responsible for a bogus warrant in the system. The woman probably has a good case for damages from the police department for doing it twice. That's sloppy police work.

You should read Normal Accidents. "Human error" is an excuse. It isn't really actionable. Instead of trying to fix the "human error", you must design the system such that it does not permit life-threatening errors.

Sometimes that means a tradeoff in terms of efficiency, cost, or something else. Often this tradeoff is not one that people in charge of the system are willing to make, unless they are forced to do so by a larger institution or force.

To really drive this home:

1. What steps did Flock Safety take to ensure this warrant was valid and current, and that the plate number was correctly entered?

2. What steps did the police officers take to validate the warrant against the APB hit from the camera?

3. What process is in place to ensure incorrect warrants are not entered or mistakenly kept live for longer than intended?

My guess is that the answer to all three of these is basically "none".

Re: Woman pulled over twice after Flock-linked software connected her to homicide

#144

Post by WillAdams » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:32 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #21

nemomarx wrote: post #9

Why did they need to have guns drawn and that many cops, even if the flag had been correct? A car involved in a homicide investigation doesn't mean it's even being driven by the suspect. It's not a positive ID at all

Same reason why so called "Swatting" is largely a non-issue outside the US: Police in the US are trained to respond to the hilt by default, and then lower their heavy-handed response later if they warrant it. Contrast that with most other countries, where police are trained to respond and only escalate based on the findings/as the situation unfolds. This training is supposedly for "officer safety." But being a police…

The problem is, this behaviour and training fails the legal standard of a presumption of innocence which should guide such.

Re: Woman pulled over twice after Flock-linked software connected her to homicide

#145

Post by jorblumesea » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:32 PM UTC

VariousPrograms wrote: post #13

The inaccuracy of our omniscient AI surveillance network isn't why I'm against it. The conclusion of this article is that we need more humans in the loop for a successful police state.

as if the other, 20th century surveillance states were so accurate and effective

Re: Woman pulled over twice after Flock-linked software connected her to homicide

#146

Post by actionfromafar » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:32 PM UTC

paimapi wrote: post #104

andybak wrote: post #76

I get tired of saying this but "got misidentified by the police" is somewhere between an annoyance and a humourous anecdote in most developed countries that aren't the USA where it appears to be justifiably regarded as a near death experience.

a significant portion of police training literally teaches them to fear your regular citizen. they're taught that anybody may be armed and they face the chance of death at every traffic stop and are shown dashcam footage of the worst incidents where this did happen without the probabilistic context see https://revealnews.org/podcast/what-cops-arent-learning/

Community policing, it aint.

Re: Woman pulled over twice after Flock-linked software connected her to homicide

#147

Post by cwillu » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:33 PM UTC

lux-lux-lux wrote: post #100

M3L0NM4N wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this sounds amazing. Enforce all the laws and rescind the bad ones! There are tons!

Unfortunately we’re not real good at rescinding bad laws, so you just get tyranny (and a lot of mysteriously voided tickets for cops and politicians)

Exactly:

The problem with rats' nests of infrastructure is that it is effectively impossible to determine what wires are structurally load-bearing in unexpected ways, and there's literally nobody in a position of authority that would be even remotely trusted by a super-majority to construct a suitable replacement system from whole cloth.

Re: Woman pulled over twice after Flock-linked software connected her to homicide

#148

Post by stickfigure » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:33 PM UTC

Someone1234 wrote: post #21

nemomarx wrote: post #9

Why did they need to have guns drawn and that many cops, even if the flag had been correct? A car involved in a homicide investigation doesn't mean it's even being driven by the suspect. It's not a positive ID at all

Same reason why so called "Swatting" is largely a non-issue outside the US: Police in the US are trained to respond to the hilt by default, and then lower their heavy-handed response later if they warrant it. Contrast that with most other countries, where police are trained to respond and only escalate based on the findings/as the situation unfolds. This training is supposedly for "officer safety." But being a police…

> But being a police officer in the US isn't even in the top-10 most dangerous fields

You don't think that has something to do with the exact policies you are objecting to? They call them "high risk stops" for a reason.

Re: Woman pulled over twice after Flock-linked software connected her to homicide

#149

Post by everdrive » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:33 PM UTC

Xirdus wrote: post #102

jvanderbot wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. A perfect surveillance state is still wrong by design. If you dont accept this, consider the perfect surveillance state under president N, used by president N+1 given the inevitable flipflop in party control.

Unfortunately, the Trump presidency has conclusively proved the "imagine if your opponent was in power" argument doesn't work. Everybody says Trump should be impeached, nobody says the office of the president should be deprived of the powers Trump used to do the things he should be impeached for.

>Everybody says Trump should be impeached, nobody says the office of the president should be deprived of the powers Trump used to do the things he should be impeached for.

Because when the other side gets in they're going to use those awesome powers to do "good" things. No one believes in institutions anymore.

Re: Woman pulled over twice after Flock-linked software connected her to homicide

#150

Post by monksy » Tue, Aug 11, 2026, 6:33 PM UTC

skullone wrote: post #41

Add the flock CEOs license plate to the system, lets see how he likes it

There needs to be a public site that surveils and broadcasts (from public support) the private and public lives of officers, government officials, and Flock/Axon. For everyone's safety.