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Squeak 6.1

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Re: Squeak 6.1

#141

Post by danhite »

vanderZwan wrote: post #99
uncircle wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assembly is very useful to learn, but does not bring as strong a paradigm shift, as it is similar to most other imperative, procedural languages.

Bootstrapping a Forth in assembly is probably a better option, two birds with one stone.

or, if you're a stoned bird, perhaps bootstrap your modern skillz by ...

a session prompting Claude to quickly write all of:

  a forth style assembler for wasm 
  targeting a forth written in 6502 machine code (not assembly) 
  targeting a 6502 emulator/debugger written in Rust
  that Rust being compiled into a wasm browser project with 
  a typescript ui for display api support for all the nested contexts
personally I've only ever done the forth-like in 6502 machine code task, but then I am old and useless (er, "retired") and wouldn't want to mislead youngsters onto my failed path

Re: Squeak 6.1

#144

Post by morphle »

bmacho wrote: post #136
morphle wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have at least eight different GUIs implemented in Squeak and also native Xwindows, macOS, iPhone and Windows. Plus several through the FFI interface. And three/seven Web GUI interfaces. We used to run (around 2009) Squeak on more platforms than Linux, they all still work in the 32 versions. I'll make the old bitrotted GUI's work again in the latest Squeak 6.1 if you pay me a few thousand euro's. I count many more n…

> And three/seven Web GUI interfaces. Is there one that uses html (text, div) and not canvas/bitmap?

Seaside renders as html. Magritte and Pier (CMS) on top.

Re: Squeak 6.1

#145

Post by pkphilip »

Can someone give me some advice on what to use as a beginner? Pharo? Squeak? Common Lisp?

I just want to understand how this whole thing works and see how I can use it.

Re: Squeak 6.1

#147

Post by brabel »

flowardnut wrote: post #107
brabel wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you joking? GTK is not about AI either (though yeah they put LLMs in it if you want), it's another Smalltalk environment.

i mean look at the site linked. It's beating you over the head with AI immediately

They did turn the AI marketing dial way up on the landing page, but you should give the project a chance if you haven't seen it - it's by far the most modern Smalltalk browser and super fun to use. I only stopped using it on my random data explorations and for-fun coding sessions because it was quite heavy in RAM usage and I wanted something lighter (settled on good old emacs).

Re: Squeak 6.1

#148

Post by jnpnj »

xkriva11 wrote: post #146
pkphilip wrote: post #145

Can someone give me some advice on what to use as a beginner? Pharo? Squeak? Common Lisp? I just want to understand how this whole thing works and see how I can use it.

Probably start with Pharo MOOC: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2okA_2qDJ-kCHVcNXdO5...

It's a great MOOC. Learned a lot how culture influence ideas there.

Re: Squeak 6.1

#149

Post by igouy »

mkl wrote: post #137
kitd wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me, Smalltalk's "wow" moment was the concept of a persistently running image, with the developer's job being to mould and manipulate it into the shape s/he wants.

For me, that was my "I'm getting out of here before I break it irreversibly" moment while working through some introductory tutorial ~20 years ago; I've never touched Smalltalk again. I can't understand why being bespoke and unreproducible would be a desirable thing for software. (Yes, clearly I don't "get it". Happy to hear explanations.)

It's unfortunate but understandable that the stuff which is most different from other programming environments grabs attention and the basic stuff is hardly mentioned.

> break it irreversibly

Nope. "Cuis-Smalltalk records any action occurring in the environment: the code you edit in the System Browser, the code you execute in a Workspace. Therefore, in the event of a Cuis-Smalltalk crash you can restore unsaved changes when you launch the same Cuis-Smalltalk image again."

https://drcuis.github.io/TheCuisBook/The-Change-Log.html

> bespoke and unreproducible

So there have been all manner of ways to save code changes as plain text in files (or other formats in databases).

https://drcuis.github.io/TheCuisBook/The-Change-Set.html

https://drcuis.github.io/TheCuisBook/The-Package.html

Re: Squeak 6.1

#150

Post by embedding-shape »

muvlon wrote: post #120
embedding-shape wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NixOS is kind of like that, the image being the environment you end up with running the system. Difference being you tend to edit the source code of small programs passing/transforming data, package manifests and definitions in NixOS, instead of using the "Inspector" to find and browse live Objects of the image/system and figuring out what comes from where, then running things in the REPL to edit them into the right…

Huh, I actually think it's the opposite. Classic Linux distros like debian are much more like Lisp, everything is the same big mutable pile of state and you query and edit it from within the system itself. The REPL is just your shell. It's very live and interactive and a bit scary at times. NixOS by contrast takes the entire Linux userland and makes it an immutable, dead compiler artifact. So it is to debian like C o…

Yeah, that perspective also makes sense to me. From my point of view, I kind of use Clojure as a "have live environment + source code" and was mapping that to how I also use NixOS on servers, which basically their shells are remote REPL environments, and my Nix code I deploy to them is the source code in a way.

But the perspective you put forward again also makes sense to me too, I don't think there is any right or wrong here :) Thanks for sharing it at least!

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