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The Vespa at 80

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Re: The Vespa at 80

#141

Post by porknubbins »

bootlooped wrote: post #102
mulmen wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vespas aren’t mopeds.

For better or worse, probably worse, the definitions of both "moped" and "scooter" vary from person to person or jurisdiction to jurisdiction. "Moped" is often used to describe a light motorcycle.

Ive been riding scooters and motorcycles for 20 years and I to this day I have no clear image of what a moped might be. I always imagined a theoretical spectrum from pure bicycle -> gas motor equipped bicycle-> moped -> pure motorcycle, but have never encountered a moped.

Re: The Vespa at 80

#142

Post by jimbokun »

esperent wrote: post #4

I like Vespas, they're very stylish, but damn they are noisy, and not a nice rumble either but more like a very loud chainsaw. They give off a terrible amount of smoke compared more modern scooters too. I do often wonder why so few other new small motorcycles or scooters have similarly beautiful designs though. However, for me, having lived in a country with a motorbike culture for the last decade, the coolest thing…

Could they just shove an electric motor into a beautiful Vespa?

Re: The Vespa at 80

#143

Post by zakki »

anal_reactor wrote: post #64
weberer wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're describing a 2-stroke engine, which older Vespas did use. But modern ones use a 4-stroke engine and should have the same emissions profile as any other motorcycle.

I live next to a road and combustion-engine mopeds vary from "holy fuck this is loud" to "I can't wait to move out". I used to live close to an airport and that was much better. The specific noise that mopeds make drills into your head. Funnily, I'm never bothered by nails on chalkboard or cutlery on plate, but mopeds, holy fuck, if hell exists, it's full of mopeds.

Hell is exist but it is not full of mopeds.

Re: The Vespa at 80

#144

Post by MomsAVoxell »

esperent wrote: post #66
MomsAVoxell wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switched from Vespa (combustion) to Unu (electric) and Black Tea (electric) .. and the one feature I yearn for, from the Vespa era, is its noise factor. Electric is damn quiet, damn smooth, and damn fast. (And damn comfy.) And that can be a problem. Especially in a city like, say, Vienna, where people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets. I became a much more alert and guarding rider…

> people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets. Yes, you're supposed to be the one checking that you don't hit pedestrians. Cities are for humans first, machines second. Drive slower. If you want to drive fast, take a road trip.

You don’t need to lecture me, I have been driving safely and avoiding arrogant, ignorant pedestrians all my life.

The point is, people in cities have become accustomed to using noise as their first sense, and vision much later. Sometimes far too late. And if I hadn’t been driving extremely defensively, as always, I would definitely have hit many, many stupid pedestrians with very little self-preservation sensibility.

If you’re a pedestrian, look both ways before you cross the road. Duh.

Re: The Vespa at 80

#145

Post by MomsAVoxell »

rconti wrote: post #91
esperent wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets. Yes, you're supposed to be the one checking that you don't hit pedestrians. Cities are for humans first, machines second. Drive slower. If you want to drive fast, take a road trip.

It takes a certain kind of arrogance to assume that another person's direct experience must be wrong, and your take, based on a 14 word description of the scenario, must be right. Two people who actually live the same experience may have different opinions on "right" and "wrong", and the law may differ from those opinions. But man, assuming bad faith on the part of others is a hell of a way to go through life.

It’s alright, I do not hit pedestrians. I usually brake just in time and then yell at them and tell them to look where they’re fucking walking - often with the addendum to put their stupid fucking phones away and live another day.

Re: The Vespa at 80

#146

Post by MomsAVoxell »

tuvix wrote: post #113
esperent wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets. Yes, you're supposed to be the one checking that you don't hit pedestrians. Cities are for humans first, machines second. Drive slower. If you want to drive fast, take a road trip.

I assumed they were talking about cars and other motorists. I drive a scooter (Genuine Buddy) and have crashed before due to drivers not checking properly when at a two way stop

In these little streets there are countless hazards, from tourists who have no idea how to cross a road properly and safely, to other drivers opening their doors without checking the road first, to kids just playing in the streets because the silence makes them think its safe.

As an electric rider I take extra responsibility for my stealth. It is a blessing and a curse. But I’ll get a whistle for some of the quieter alleys .. people really are pretty uninitelligent when it comes to some streets.

Re: The Vespa at 80

#147

Post by MomsAVoxell »

furyofantares wrote: post #125
esperent wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets. Yes, you're supposed to be the one checking that you don't hit pedestrians. Cities are for humans first, machines second. Drive slower. If you want to drive fast, take a road trip.

The person with the vehicle is who should ultimately be held responsible in the case of an accident, but I also find it absolutely wild when I venture out into the city and see people on their phone with headphones on crossing the street when the walk sign comes on without so much as glancing in the direction of traffic.

“Pedestrians are dumb” is the mantra that keeps me, and them, alive. I utter it many times a day ..

Re: The Vespa at 80

#148

Post by MomsAVoxell »

odiroot wrote: post #99
MomsAVoxell wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switched from Vespa (combustion) to Unu (electric) and Black Tea (electric) .. and the one feature I yearn for, from the Vespa era, is its noise factor. Electric is damn quiet, damn smooth, and damn fast. (And damn comfy.) And that can be a problem. Especially in a city like, say, Vienna, where people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets. I became a much more alert and guarding rider…

TBQH from my experience people in Vienna are quite oblivious to single-track vehicles. No idea why but even cycling here is often scary.

Precisely because of the sentiment expressed in the message you’re responding to - Viennese are quite comfortable with the idea that no matter what they do, the person with the expensive transport device is to blame, 100%.

Even when I am in pedestrian mode I find myself cursing those smaller electric moped riders who qualify to ride the bike lane (my bikes are only for the roads) and zoom around like they own the bike lane. I sure do love giving them a lesson when I’m on my bigger bike though. Nothing more satisfying than shouting OIDA at some dufus who almost killed themselves in the bike lane.

In any case, electric riders do have more responsibility. It comes with the comfort.

Re: The Vespa at 80

#149

Post by MomsAVoxell »

tuan wrote: post #72
MomsAVoxell wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switched from Vespa (combustion) to Unu (electric) and Black Tea (electric) .. and the one feature I yearn for, from the Vespa era, is its noise factor. Electric is damn quiet, damn smooth, and damn fast. (And damn comfy.) And that can be a problem. Especially in a city like, say, Vienna, where people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets. I became a much more alert and guarding rider…

Or honk. Does your Vespa have a honk? In Vietnam, we honk our bikes to alert others especially around a curve. Foreign visitors complain about all the honking, and they are indeed annoying sometimes, but there is a reason why people do it.

My Unu/Black Tea (no Vespa) do have honks, but they’re quite whimpy, and the Viennese will scream extra bloody murder at you for honks as well, especially if they’re the ones standing foolishly in the middle of the road with their mobile phone plastered to their faces, and you’ve just added a new black line in the road, braking not to hit them ..

I keep thinking I should upgrade my honk to make it beefier (although honk usage can get you a traffic ticket in Vienna), but I want to experiment with the helmet whistle a bit more, just to see if its effective ..

Re: The Vespa at 80

#150

Post by MomsAVoxell »

bee_rider wrote: post #86
esperent wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets. Yes, you're supposed to be the one checking that you don't hit pedestrians. Cities are for humans first, machines second. Drive slower. If you want to drive fast, take a road trip.

This is true. But unfortunately it is correct advice being given to the person who isn’t causing the problem. It would be interesting to see what an intentionally and well designed city could look like. I’d probably have a walkable city center, no cars, and maybe scooters could be allowed but required to have some automatic wireless-controlled limiter that keeps them below 10mph or something.

You’ve just described Vienna, whose city streets were laid out when walking was the only affordable way to get around .. then horses .. then carts .. then cars .. and so on .. took over the very same pathways.

My neighborhood, which borders one of the ancient entryways into the city (Mariahilferstrasse), is converting to pedestrian-priority streets, chopping off lanes and turning them into an extension of the main Mariahilferstrasse walking street, is an example of just what you describe. It is being laid out with rest stops and trees, and water springs, and so on - and it is delightful, true, to have such conveniences as bike-only lanes. However, they are being exploited by the delivery classes whose mini-me mopeds, limited to 25km/h, are considered ‘bicycles’ for the purposes of the bike lanes. Too many times I’ve seen clueless tourists (mostly Americans) who have no idea what those bike lanes are for, stepping into them, only to narrowly escape death or dismemberment at the hands of the delivery guy, exploiting the lane.

My class bike can only ride on the road, so it’s only in the quieter streets I have to be super-alert .. but man, those guys in the bike lanes are nonsense.

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